Hidden Aspects of the Legal World Revealed with Victoria Reading

What does it really take to become a successful lawyer? And what are the hidden truths of navigating a legal career that TV shows like Boston Legal and Suits might not portray? In an enlightening chat with Victoria Reading, a seasoned attorney who has walked this path, we delve into the heart of these questions. Victoria not only shares her unique journey and the shifts she made in her legal career but also offers her expert advice on estate planning and the little-known legal requirements of a valid will in North Carolina.

Launching a business? We've got you covered. Victoria highlights how necessary it is to seek expert advice, especially in niches like the wedding service industry. In an industry where every tiny detail matters, having the right paperwork in place before you venture into business can make all the difference. Victoria also shares her thoughts on the importance of building trust in business relationships and debunks common myths around estate planning. Plus, if you're curious about her favorite outdoor activities and best walking routes in Wilmington, you're in for a treat!

It's not all serious law talk, though. Victoria gives us a peek into her personal life, moving from Phoenix to Wilmington, and how she integrated herself into the local community. She shares how she built her reputation and skills while emphasizing the importance of confidence, especially for young women entering the male-dominated legal profession. Lastly, if you're someone who loves a good laugh, Victoria's humorous takes on court transcripts are sure to tickle your funny bone. Tune in for an entertaining and informative chat where we explore the world of law from a lawyer's perspective.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:31

Welcome back to the whiskey. And was some podcast, everybody. This is your co-host, tyler y'all, and today I am with Chris. Kellum, and our special guest today is. Victoria Redding and Victoria, what do you do?

Speaker 3: 0:43

I'm an attorney here in Wilmington. I'm a partner and co-owner of my firm Atlas legal, and we practice primarily estate planning, business law and employment law.

Speaker 1: 0:54

Sounds good and we will make it sound a lot more fun than what most people are thinking right now when it comes to Legally's.

Speaker 2: 1:01

But this week, since Victoria has sustained from drinking, right now we are all drinking water, which is probably better off, because Chris and I were getting a lot of content today from the Starling and we were already drinking beforehand, so and talking about that, I just want to give a shout out to any and all bartenders who come up with new drinks for each season or a drink in general, because my brain, just like trying all these things, is Crazy to be like how did you come up with that?

Speaker 2: 1:32

Mm-hmm like we had a few of them. Obviously, I can never just have one when I show up, but we had a few and it their mini was just so delicious and it's always changing. For those who don't drink, they do have, like, non-alcoholic content cocktails. We were talking about that while we're over there.

Speaker 2: 1:52

They're pretty good too, because I was like, oh yeah, you know Victoria's not drinking, and I was like that's fine. You know, they have a strip tease number two, which is my favorite. Well, they use, like liars, non-alcoholic pink gin, and then they have Blanc verjeu, and then strawberry and basil, I Don't know what, and then salt and it just chef's kiss. But if you want alcohol, you should definitely have a flannel crop top.

Speaker 1: 2:20

Just a random shout out just to bring in two of my favorite bars to do a really good job. Seasonal drinks. Yeah so one Starling. They used our Previous brand ambassador, ship howler head, for one of their drinks really freaking good drink. The reason I bring that up Sarah Alde, that's one of her favorite whiskey, mm-hmm, so it's really cool that there's finally a cocktail that uses it and at I Forget what they're called now, but so I was sure flying bling machine orster bar.

Speaker 1: 2:53

So they came out their fall menu and you can actually go there and order a Sarah which is named after Sarah Alde. Yes, so it is a ref on a bees knees, so fun stuff there. So just want to shout that out because of my two favorite places and that just happened to have a weird connection with the past. Podcast guest but enough about alcohol and past podcast guests. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Speaker 3: 3:17

Yeah, so my name is Victoria Redding. I am licensed in both North Carolina and Arizona to practice law. I moved here from Arizona about a year ago and that's where I started my legal career. My husband and I both went to Penn State, where we grew up in Pennsylvania. Yeah, go lines Yep and die hard Nittany Lions will be, watching the game tomorrow. But yes, we moved to Phoenix so we could have an adventure. I could go to law school and he got a remote job that was anchored on the West Coast.

Speaker 3: 3:52

So okay we went there, planned to go to law school there, maybe stay for a little bit, ended up staying almost nine years. And then moved here, so it's been a it's been a good adventure. Love Wilmington so far. We were just talking earlier, but I feel like I, the people I thought in Phoenix were really friendly. Then I moved here and I just thought, wow, these people are really really friendly. So I've been super welcomed into the community and it's been a great year so far.

Speaker 2: 4:25

The question is are they really actually friendly? Are they like southern friendly? Because those are two different things also.

Speaker 1: 4:31

That's true. I think Wilmington's like actually friendly. There's definitely other parts of North Carolina that are southern friendly and my personal northern opinion. Do you know what southern friendly is?

Speaker 3: 4:42

I'm not yet, but I'm sure I'll learn.

Speaker 1: 4:45

They're friendly to your face, but then they're not really anything to do with you. On the backside. Oh yeah the people I've met down here I have like, actually good, genuine connections with, and I assume that you're not just being nice to my face for years on end without catching on to it, so Hopefully for the past year I haven't just been tramps in around town, just so happy and everyone's like all that girl.

Speaker 1: 5:10

So this hasn't come out yet, but I did invite you on to the build your community summit to talk and everything too, and the reason why I did that is it seemed like you got yourself connected and the right group of people extremely fast and Everyone loves you and so anytime you do get brought up in conversation, it's always really good things. So that that was the reason why I wanted to bring you on and talk to other people about building community, because you did it so Well down here.

Speaker 3: 5:33

Thanks. Well, that that makes me really glad to hear. I had a lot of help and I definitely was introduced to the right people right away, I think Catherine Brunner, who I know you've had on the podcast a few times and are good friends with to.

Speaker 3: 5:47

She was one of the first people I met here and she just kind of plugged me in places that she thought I would thrive in and introduce me to people that were friendly and kind, and I just try to go to everything that I can make time to go to and consistently see people, and I've been really enjoying it. It's Wilmington, such a good community I found to be involved in and that was something I really wanted when I was here. It was community.

Speaker 1: 6:12

So we jumped into your story in Wilmington right away. So let's take a few years, step back. What made you interested in law?

Speaker 3: 6:20

Yeah, I mean I. For as long as I can remember I've wanted to be a lawyer. I, probably before I even knew what that was, I just probably saw it on TV Said I'm gonna be a lawyer. And then as I got older I kind of tried to figure out okay, what skills do I have and what do I want to do? Not, didn't want to go into medicine, can't really handle blood and fluids and all that kind of stuff. Not great at math, so Far away from that my husband's an engineer.

Speaker 3: 6:49

He does all the math related things in our life and. But I'm a very fast reader, I am analytical, I enjoy Interpreting and explaining things to people, I enjoy working with people. So when I went to Penn State I Thought I was gonna be a criminal defense attorney and I was gung-ho on that. I majored in criminology, which at the time Penn State didn't have a pre-law major. So I majored in criminology and there were some law type classes sprinkled in there.

Speaker 3: 7:22

And it was great and I loved it and so applied to law school, got in and then I was like, wow, I'm not gonna be a criminal defense attorney.

Speaker 1: 7:29

That is not what I'm gonna do.

Speaker 3: 7:33

Yes, I have one of my best friends from law school, though. He was a criminal defense attorney right out of law school and now he's a prosecutor, and I can't think of anybody better For that job. I think people are just really suited for the areas of law that they tend to practice in, and thankfully somebody is.

Speaker 1: 7:50

Yes, what was the experience that you had? You're like, yeah, you know what? Not, not for me.

Speaker 3: 7:54

Yeah Well. So when you go to law school in your first year, everybody all across the country is to take the same core classes. Whether you're going to Yale or you're going to Arizona State, you're taking the same classes, and one of those classes is criminal law.

Speaker 3: 8:11

Mm-hmm and then you take a criminal procedure class and it's just. I just thought it was Too emotionally back and forth for me. I had a really hard time Thinking about how am I gonna handle these kinds of situations Without getting so emotionally invested. So, and I just really like to write, I really like to read and I just I Didn't think I wanted to be in a courtroom all the time either, so it was a little bit easier for me to roll that area of law out so I have the Chris style questions here.

Speaker 2: 8:49

As a younger millennial, I guess you are did you watch Boston legal growing up?

Speaker 3: 8:55

I well, I watched legally. Blonde was the first like that I saw okay and no. I didn't, but I watched a lot of law and order, okay that kind of stuff, and I think, unfortunately, the shows that are on TV give lawyers such a bad reputation.

Speaker 2: 9:15

Even suits.

Speaker 3: 9:15

It's such an amazing suit is one of my favorite shows. I love it. It's so great, but it's so unrealistic. I mean me, me, I don't know. I've never worked in a huge corporate law firm in New York, but I. It's very far from the practice of law in my opinion.

Speaker 2: 9:33

That show was just ridiculous. I'm like really, come on in, we're normal people, our bills are a lot higher because we went to law school, but yeah, that's another thing.

Speaker 3: 9:44

I feel like people, especially clients or people in the community they're always like man lawyers are so expensive. You don't even want to know how much it cost me to go to law school. I'm in the in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and I have to pay all that back. So, like most, most attorneys, I, you have to pay for it somehow, and Unfortunately, to pay it back, we have to charge what we charge, and so that's a little tough.

Speaker 1: 10:12

Well, I most of the time see what's very justified, Because it's the way that I look at it, for like the the groundwork and you'll probably there's a good chance You'll be like no, you're completely wrong. But the way that I look at it anyway is almost like an insurance policy where, like Okay, I don't like to pay my insurance premium every month, but when I get into that accident I'm sure glad as hell that I paid that insurance premium. So like it may hurt to spend that couple thousand dollars with you up front to get your like C-Corp or whatever set up, but I'm pretty sure in the long run when you start coming up against some things that you want to come up against, it makes it all worthwhile.

Speaker 3: 10:51

Yeah, I mean. I fullheartedly believe in being proactive rather than reactive. Being reactive is going to be more expensive, it's gonna be more emotional, it's gonna be more time consuming. Not everybody can afford to be super, super proactive, but I really try to work with my clients coming up with a plan so that they can afford to be as proactive as possible.

Speaker 1: 11:15

Yeah, try to push off the lawsuits and not bring them on, because they know that it can be pierced, or whatever the case may be.

Speaker 3: 11:22

Yeah, I mean, it can ruin your business.

Speaker 1: 11:24

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:25

So yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:27

So, as non-legal advice here, do you because you we're going into business now, yeah, things you actually work with. You said you do estate planning yeah. Is there a different type of estate work that people could do?

Speaker 3: 11:43

Yeah, so estate planning typically encompasses wills and trusts, probate litigation and estate administration. I primarily do all of the pre-death documentation drafting, so basic will packages, powers of attorney, those kinds of things, or trusts, which trusts come into hand more with complex issues people that have a lot of wealth or they have companies that they want to put in a trust, or their home or just different situations but probably the average person in the community is going to be looking at either setting up a basic will or a basic trust.

Speaker 1: 12:25

Okay yeah, you cannot rate your will on the back of an applicant and put it in your underneath your bed.

Speaker 2: 12:31

That doesn't work in North Carolina, but if my lawyer signs it. Still doesn't matter yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:02

I'm going to give the disclaimer that I'm not giving any legal advice and I'm not creating any kind of attorney-client relationship, just general information. But you are correct, you can't just write it on the back of an applicant and shove it under your bed. Your will has to be witnessed by two people and notarized in the, so to speak, witnessed in the presence of a notary. And so people moving to North Carolina that's a big thing that they want to look out for too they probably want to get their estate planning documents checked by an attorney.

Speaker 2: 13:34

So what you're saying is, if I'm at a bar with a notary, an attorney well, she didn't say an attorney had to be, she just said if you're not drinking at the bar and you're not consuming alcohol, then potentially yes, but yeah, you can't.

Speaker 3: 13:49

you can't be under the influence of alcohol.

Speaker 2: 13:51

Interesting. I mean, I assume the case, but I'm just, I'm just here to just ask the silly questions.

Speaker 1: 13:58

But it is a drinking podcast, so I'm not drunk this time. This time.

Speaker 2: 14:03

Surprisingly so. Estate planning. What is your? Because you mentioned you like reading and writing. Is that why you chose? Because I know there's a lot of different things you could practice.

Speaker 3: 14:15

Yeah, so when I started out as an attorney, I started out in the realm of employment law and I represented plaintiffs for about five years in Employment Law Workers Comp, and so I was representing individuals and I wasn't doing a lot of reading and writing.

Speaker 1: 14:31

I'm sure I was in hearings a lot.

Speaker 3: 14:34

I was analyzing medical evidence with doctors. All of my clients got hurt on the job and we're trying to either return back to work or they're unable to return to work. We were trying to figure out something to help set them up for what they can do or how they're going to manage their life with their injury. So so I didn't do a lot of reading and writing back then, but when I moved here I kind of switched sides to the employer and business side, and so when I work with businesses now, I do a lot of drafting. I draft all entity startup documents, employment agreements, employee handbooks, master service agreements, drafting all of those kinds of things which sound really boring, but it's exciting when you're working with the clients and they're talking to you about their business goals and what they want to accomplish and how. How can I draft the documents that will allow them to do what they want to do?

Speaker 2: 15:28

Yeah, I'm just that. I wouldn't say dumb, but I'm just not. I would have never thought that the employee handbook given to me, to me Was written up by a lawyer.

Speaker 1: 15:41

Oh yeah, I've read plenty of employee handbooks. I'm like a lawyer wrote this.

Speaker 3: 15:47

Sometimes they're not, which is the scary part. That's the proactive versus reactive part in companies. Sometimes you get anybody can draft the employee handbook, but if you're wanting to comply with North Carolina law and federal law and you have certain things about your business that are unique, you're probably gonna want to consult with either an attorney or like a professional HR representative to help you with it.

Speaker 1: 16:13

What are three tips that you would give a business owner or a Person who's looking to start a business to get started on the law side?

Speaker 3: 16:21

yeah, I think if you're looking to start a business, and I think something that's really important to think about is when you talk to an attorney, it shouldn't be scary, you should be excited. I personally offer free consultations where my potential clients will come in and Tell me about your ideas, tell me what you're thinking you want to do, and we can talk about the best way to set up your business. So one is actually going through with meeting with a business attorney Whether that's me or one of the other great business attorneys in town, just so you're not starting with what you read on the internet and then having backpedal. So that's definitely a tip is actually go talk to an attorney. The second tip I would say is To prepare to meet with the attorney.

Speaker 3: 17:06

You're gonna want to have to already kind of have a business plan in place. Who are you? Who's gonna be doing this business with you is are you? Is it gonna be your spouse? Are you? Oh, starting your business by yourself is your best friend, starting your business with you, because that's gonna help the attorney figure out how to draft your operating agreement. The banks probably gonna need an operating agreement, depending on whether or not you need a loan to start your business.

Speaker 3: 17:31

So already knowing that ahead of time, before you go into meet with an attorney, is important to, and then I think, finally, maybe Just not having any expectations about how you think it's gonna go. I think a lot of people they just skip meeting with an attorney or they skip all the important documents because they're afraid it's gonna be expensive. I see all the comments on Facebook when people are like writing in the Wilmington Facebook page and they're like you can do this by yourself and attorney's just gonna take all your money and all that kind of stuff. I'm sure their attorneys out there, who Charge a lot and maybe I can't speak for all the attorneys, but most of us are just want to help you. So come in with no expectations and just listen and learn and if you leave with anything, you're gonna leave with information and that's what you need to start your business is knowledge, so it's gonna help you start and grow from there.

Speaker 1: 18:29

I think where a lot of the like negative connotation comes from is those like law and order and crime type of TV shows where you just see like a prosecutor that's just coming in like a bad out of hell and just like coming into attack. And it's funny meeting people who don't Don't live on that side of law, because it's a completely different world. Like you said, everyone's out there to help you. Like odds are, you didn't want to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt Just to be an asshole to your clients.

Speaker 3: 19:00

Yeah, and I you know I don't think I'm an asshole outside of work.

Speaker 1: 19:05

So I'm not a lot of you know, inside of work.

Speaker 3: 19:07

You know, like I, I like to bring my personality Into work. I think it's super important that your clients can relate to you. I'm a person just like they are. I have a lot of questions that I probably think are dumb. Like Tyler, if I have finance questions, the first thing that pops in my head is probably like this is probably dumb question, but and you're probably gonna tell me, no, it's not a dumb question, you're not in finance. So you, you know you have those questions, and so I think just just one thing I really really would love to get across to the community is there are really friendly attorneys out there who want to help you, and I think I'm one of them. Hopefully, and you know, yeah, again I people we just want to help people, and once you get connected to the right Team and the right group of people, it won't be so intimidating, and I guess that's more toward business owners.

Speaker 1: 20:01

And I thought you're very personable too when I first met you as well. So anytime someone comes across my desk that needs help with anything, you're the first person I recommend all the time, just because I know anyone that could come to you. You'll strike up a conversation with them, really easy to talk to and so, and I've heard great feedback from those clients as well too. So, yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 3: 20:21

Yeah, I'm a person too. I like to do things on the weekend. I like to talk about the things I'm interested in to. I like to hear what other people are interested in. I like to ask where people like to eat in town. I don't know. I'm new here too, so I'm just trying to integrate myself in the community, and People that are here know more than I do, so I just I like to really hear what people are into and Unshare what I'm into too.

Speaker 1: 20:46

So what do you do, enjoying on your days off?

Speaker 3: 20:48

Yeah, so super outdoorsy in Phoenix my husband and I hiked all the time. It's hot, but actually this time of year where it starts to cool down in Arizona is super nice. My husband actually proposed to me on one of the hardest hikes in Phoenix so I had to work for my ring, but I really wanted to do that hike. I've been begging him to take me, so I like to do a lot of hiking. I know there's not a lot of hiking in Wilmington, unfortunately, but I've gotten into paddleboarding and kayaking, which I've really enjoyed. I like to walk. I used to run. I don't run as much anymore, but I I just like to really be outside. Yeah, I just Probably will see me either walking the loop at right, so beach, or I live in river lights now, so walking around the lake over there is really nice. I try to do that every day when it's not raining.

Speaker 2: 21:38

Right not today You're randomly started raining today.

Speaker 3: 21:41

Yeah, guys.

Speaker 2: 21:42

Yeah, so Chris is silly Random questions. I know this could be stupid. So for someone who Because we're talking about going for goals earlier today and so someone has a business idea and they're like, ooh, I'd love to I don't know start a suit store or something, this is a very specific question.

Speaker 3: 22:04

You want to start a suit, a suit store? Chris, I haven't decided.

Speaker 2: 22:10

But I'm, you know, I'm just giving out ideas like people wanted to start a clothing store or something like that, because you always I see all these things on tiktok and Instagram. I was like, oh, just go to this and start an LLC and you're good to go. Is that is that true? Or should they like actually come find you?

Speaker 3: 22:26

Well, it's always, I would say, if you can Meet with an attorney before you file anything, oh, that's gonna be best. You can pay an attorney to file your documents for you if you don't even want to have to navigate that. It is really easy, though, to start an LLC in North Carolina. You just go on the Secretary of State's website, follow the steps, you can EIN number, and you're pretty much good to go. You have to file articles of incorporation, you probably want an operating agreement, and so it wouldn't hurt to talk to an attorney before you file your own documents, but most people file their own documents, unless it's somebody that is restructuring a business that they already have or they're Creating a second business to spin off from their first business, but most people file their documents by themselves.

Speaker 2: 23:15

Did. I also just hate doing stuff myself. I know there's there's always things in the world or people like, oh, you can do that yourself and I'm like true, but there's someone who's way better at this right had much rather Use my time in a different direction and work with someone who's better at it. Okay, why Tyler is filed on the solve our paperwork.

Speaker 3: 23:41

I've done it a few times because he's done it.

Speaker 2: 23:43

He's like he's great at that, whereas I'm like I'm an idea person. I'm like you know, I just need to figure out who's the who I need to work with to get this idea off the ground. Yeah so it's a smart way to do it.

Speaker 1: 23:56

Yeah, yeah, it's people that always think they know everything is probably the ones to get in most trouble.

Speaker 3: 24:01

Yeah, yeah, it definitely. I see a lot of people that I see this a lot in the actually the wedding industry. Um, there's a lot of photographers and event planners and videographers and I can't, I just Well, I can't imagine some a business owner started a business from scratch.

Speaker 3: 24:21

It's expensive to Go to an attorney and ask them to draft all the agreements that you need to draft. Like, a photographer is going to need their service agreement. If they have a second shooter, they're gonna need an agreement with the second shooter. They're probably going to need addendums drafted and things like that. But I it would be great if they Read like would reach out to an attorney first, because a lot of attorneys like myself, we offer packages rather than just billing hourly. So, like Chris, if you wanted to start a photography business, oh, it's already. You've already done that.

Speaker 2: 24:59

That's Different. That was a different lifetime when I worked with a photographer. Okay, I don't see you, okay.

Speaker 3: 25:08

Yeah, now it's your suit business, but but yeah, I think the wedding industry, there's a lot of just service vendors, and so I see a lot of Mishmash contracts where people will Google or they'll use legal zoom and they'll just copy and paste paragraphs and stuff them in an agreement and then throw in some like legal use words like here and after or whereas and when to for.

Speaker 3: 25:34

Where to for, and then it doesn't really make sense. And so if those, those business owners, could ask for some guidance up front, that would really help them avoid like when COVID hit that was a horrible hit to the wedding industry.

Speaker 3: 25:51

A lot of people didn't have things in their contracts to protect themselves from losing payments, from cancellations, from people getting COVID at what did, what do they do? And so now I think people are going to be like what do they do? And so now I think people are starting to seek expert advice for that. But I think that's important for people in any industry, but I but I specifically am seeing it a lot in the wedding service industry.

Speaker 1: 26:15

Yeah, with Wilmington being a very wedding oriented area I I highly recommend as a previous DJ and a later life. Oh yeah, so I was a DJ for about 10 years. Oh, wow, yeah. So I was actually friends with another DJ who had a horrible falling out with one of their clients and barely kind of what you said, like it was something that was thrown together that he saw online and he lost basically everything when he went into this litigation with the client and at that point I was like, okay, I need to find someone to go through my stuff, because I don't have a contract at all.

Speaker 1: 26:52

So I was 18 at the time. I didn't know what the heck I was doing.

Speaker 2: 26:55

Oh yeah, I mean, it's like the younger days.

Speaker 3: 26:59

Yeah, the younger days.

Speaker 1: 27:01

Yeah, so anyone listening who is in Wilmington and part of the wedding industry go get that free consultation from Victoria, because I guarantee you it'll save you money down the road.

Speaker 2: 27:13

Yeah, that's interesting. I just like I said, there are things where, like if you're not a business owner, you don't think about those things.

Speaker 3: 27:21

Right.

Speaker 2: 27:23

So I started businesses like oh well, I do have to, I guess.

Speaker 1: 27:27

I need a contract, I mean let's be honest, it's not the first most exciting thing as a business owner when you're like. I'm going to open this brand new store. Let me go talk to an attorney, yeah, but it is probably one of the most important things, yeah, to get yourself organized because, especially like knowing you, you're probably going to help them with other resources along the way too. Okay, great, we open this up. This is what we do. If you file these documents, you should go talk to XYRZ now.

Speaker 3: 27:54

Yeah, that's one thing I've been really trying hard in the past year that I've been here is to make connections that.

Speaker 3: 28:01

I can refer my clients or people that don't even hire me but they need a CPA or a financial planner or they need somebody to help them get workers comp insurance.

Speaker 3: 28:12

I just I really think reputation is so important and, in your word, is so important, and trust is so important, and so when people come to me, whether they're hiring me or you know, maybe I can't help them, but I want to direct them in the right way.

Speaker 3: 28:29

The person that I'm going to send them to is somebody that I know their quality of work. I trust them to take care of the person I'm sending to them, the way that I would take care of them. So I think that's really important. Just talking about community in general, too, is like who's your community and the people that are in your community, trusting them and knowing that referring, referring business should be, in my opinion, personal, like that, like I'm not just going to Google. You can Google yourself if you want to find somebody on Google, but if you want to ask me, you know, like who's a good financial advisor in Wilmington, I'm going to refer you to somebody that I know will help you out, and if they can't help you, I know they're going to refer you to somebody that they trust, and that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 29:16

I mean, I do know a financial advisor, me too. I realize that the day that I know way more than I thought I did, there's a bunch of them around there, and they all focus on something different too. Yes interesting. I think we were saying earlier, I'm like one of the people like, oh yeah, I'm a lawyer. I feel like there's a lot that could go into that like lawyer packaging and even if you're like in it, I do a state planning. Well, I don't actually focus on this side of it but, I, focus more on this.

Speaker 2: 29:47

So yeah, it's a big umbrella.

Speaker 3: 29:50

Yeah, yeah, huge umbrella, just like. Just like any industry, there's a couple of MBAs out there who like stand their specific niche, and so I think, just with any industry, there's umbrellas too.

Speaker 1: 30:03

If you were to give your ideal client, what would that look like? Or who would that look like?

Speaker 3: 30:07

On the business side, a company that is planning to grow, so business owner who has a plan for growth. I love getting involved with businesses who are going to need my help along their process. I like to see them grow, expand, hire employees, sell their business at some point and I like to be a part of that from the start and build those relationships. So and that's an ideal client for me on the business side, a small business that has a good business plan and is taking the steps that they want to do seriously that's an ideal client for me. I see a lot of people who they have an idea and they're going to start their business and I'm happy to help them too, but they kind of they find out how much work it's going to be and that's discouraging for them. Yes, I see that a lot.

Speaker 2: 31:01

Yeah, tyler comes at me all the time and I'm like you know, this would be a good idea and I always come up with negative things to say, and he's one of those people who's like you know, don't think negatively, we think positive.

Speaker 2: 31:14

He always says something positive to say, like oh yeah, you know you could find somebody who has this or you can reach out. There's plenty of people in town that do that and it's always interesting because I feel like if you have somebody in your corner, it's going to be a lot easier in life and it's also better.

Speaker 3: 31:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:33

I think he seemed like someone who'd be in the corner, not just because you're, I think, just mostly because you're a good person. Not because you're a lawyer trying to make money.

Speaker 3: 31:42

Well, I can be tough when I want to be too.

Speaker 1: 31:44

That's what you need. So the last guest we had on we talked about like don't allow people to love you into a lower level. So you want that person who's tough on you as well because, odds are, someone who doesn't know you probably isn't going to be like lovingly tough on you because I don't really know you enough. I don't want the people that truly know you, who's willing to challenge you and tell you the things that you don't really want to hear.

Speaker 3: 32:05

Yeah, that comes into play a lot with family. They have like a quick legal question all the time you know and so, or like they have a quick finance question Right and I I'm happy to talk with my family about their legal questions and things like that. But I try to tell them like if you're asking me for advice, I'm going to, I'm going to have to remove the emotional aspect of it and tell you like the tough part of it like if you want to ask me is like your sister or your daughter or your cousin, I can give you that answer.

Speaker 3: 32:38

But if you're asking me for specific legal advice, it's not, unfortunately, not always going to be rainbows and butterflies kind of answer. So sometimes you have to deliver the tough information, but that doesn't always have to be negative either. I think it's good to have all the information when you're making decisions.

Speaker 1: 32:58

I think that's something difficult in general with what we do as well. Being in the like, the knowledge based industry is like what's just a question, why can't you just answer it for me? Yeah, it's like well, one, I don't know near enough about it. And two, like we can't just give out free knowledge that we took years and tons of expenses to figure out, to support the business that allows us to do that for you.

Speaker 3: 33:22

Yeah, I get a lot of people who will. They'll they'll contact my office or they'll shoot me an email and they'll say I need, I need a will, but I don't, it's just going to be a quick will, like it's going to be really easy and probably so you probably won't need to charge a lot for it. Typically, with those people I already know ahead of time one, they're probably probably don't have a grasp on what what an attorney is gonna do for them. And so I had somebody that I met early on when I moved here one time and they Contacted me and they're like I just need like a quick will and I'm looking only spent like a hundred bucks and I was like I'm sorry, but like I, you know, I can't.

Speaker 3: 34:08

I can't do that. It's gonna take me a lot longer and the integrity of my work is tied to that, so I just can't. And their comment was okay, I'll just get one on legal zoom. Then it's the same thing and it's not. You can Totally fine, I'm not knocking legal zoom or legal shield or some of the other Options that are out there, but it's not the same thing, and setting those boundaries is important too, I think, as far as my, my integrity and my reputation is attached to what I put out in the community to my clients, and so I can't just Do a quick.

Speaker 2: 34:44

Well, all the time right now we had one of one of our good friends, daddy is, was on and it's. He's one of those people that he gives quotes all the time for people and some People, all the time, are shooting like well, can I just pay you for this much? And he's like no, the this is my Business, isn't my livelihood, and I have to stand behind my work and I feel like I don't think people look at it that way nowadays. There's like, oh, I'll just give you a price. It's like so if you want me to do the work for that price, understand it's not gonna be One to my standards. And two, you're not gonna get what you think you're gonna get.

Speaker 3: 35:26

Yeah, that meme out there. It's like but do it cheap. Oh yeah, I'm like I. If you want me to do it cheap, here you, here you go. Here's like your tape to papers and.

Speaker 2: 35:40

I'm like, ah, like, if I wanted it cheap, I would just go buy a pressure washer and like, hit my house up.

Speaker 3: 35:47

Yeah, if.

Speaker 2: 35:47

I was gonna be cheap, I'm like. So I saw this on an episode of suits. This is what they said, so this should work right, like no. Yeah hey, a little bit more.

Speaker 1: 35:59

Get the quality, get what you need so on the lines of estate planning, yeah, some myths that you hear often that you can debunk for us now.

Speaker 3: 36:08

Yeah, the biggest one that I hear people will. They'll come in for a consultation and they'll be like, well, be like, okay, why are you here? What are your, what are your goals? And they'll say, well, I want to avoid probate. So five a will, I can avoid probate like nope.

Speaker 3: 36:24

It makes the probate process Probably easier. If you have a will, then the state knows how to distribute your assets. But so if you don't have a will, then it's the state's decision and it's going to go through how North Carolina statutory process goes. So by having a will, you're not. You're not evading probate. Everything sells to be filed upon your death and then your assets have to be Distributed accordingly. But it's gonna be a lot easier. So usually tell people your family still is gonna have to file your documents. Whoever you elect as your personal representative is still gonna have to do all those things. It's just gonna make it a whole lot easier for you. So that's one. If you think, if you draft yourself a will or you go get a will quickly done somewhere and then go to bed at night thinking that your family is gonna avoid probate upon your death, you're not. So that's a huge one.

Speaker 1: 37:19

Well, isn't it true? Like just when someone passes away in general and you just automatically opens up probate.

Speaker 3: 37:25

Yeah, so so you, actually you do have to file, you have to have the death certificate. You have a whole bunch of other documents and then some somebody has to file, notify that you have died and that you have you, whether you have assets or not, and so the process starts. But yes, upon death, probate begins and your Post-death documents will start to come into play. I'd also draft a lot of, I would say, pre-death documents that are super important. These are a lot. I feel like everybody should have these.

Speaker 3: 37:58

These are a lot quicker to draft, but powers of attorney, health care, financial Hip, a form, a living will these are all documents that Come into play while you, you are alive but you're incapacitated, and so if you have everything Written down the way that you want, you're taking a lot of pressure off of somebody else that has to make these decisions for you, or they're able to make decisions a lot quicker and less stressful. I've had to personally use go through the experience of not having a health care power Returning when I needed one, and it was very difficult. So I always advocate for that. If you're not ready to have a full-will package down or a safe planning package, might be good to go home, talk to your spouse, talk or your partner or whoever, and Decide if that's something that you want to have. So I would say not a myth, but just kind of a tip for anybody listening that it's just an important document to have. It's like when people are adulting. I would say add this to your adulting Portfolio is a financial advisor.

Speaker 1: 39:03

I agree, it makes my life easier, yeah the away as well.

Speaker 2: 39:07

I didn't Like You're talking about it and I'm going through the military we all of us had to sign something. Yeah, and as a kid because I didn't consider myself a full adult yet you don't realize, like how much work went into that being written up and what all it covers they were like, oh yeah, this is this and I'm like, all right, I really don't want to sit in this line. So I just signed off on something and now I realize, like how much ramifications that had on my life.

Speaker 3: 39:39

Yeah, and if you still have them and I heard you say earlier that you have a wife you might want to check those documents and see if. I don't know if you were married at the time or not, but probably want to just revisit if they're, if they exist still.

Speaker 2: 39:53

Are they still viable if I'm not in the military?

Speaker 3: 39:55

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:57

They could be.

Speaker 3: 39:58

Oh, you probably have a copy somewhere. Yeah someone probably has a copy somewhere. If they don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 40:05

Yeah, I guess, if no one can find on it doesn't matter. I'm sure the state has it though.

Speaker 2: 40:10

See you sooner rather than later then.

Speaker 3: 40:13

Most of them say to when they're dated like this is the most up-to-date copy of such-and-such document, so if an old one does resurface down the road, you should be fine.

Speaker 2: 40:24

But yeah, whoops.

Speaker 3: 40:26

Just, a little like everybody, check your documents and see, see what you have or what you need. It's just a good, good check.

Speaker 2: 40:33

Yeah, good, real sound. Yeah, that's what I'm here for is to add the silliness of oh yeah, I should probably adult a little bit better.

Speaker 3: 40:43

Well, if I wasn't doing what I am doing for a living, I probably would never think about it either. I'd probably be like I don't have kids, I don't really own much, like I don't have a ton of assets is what I would think.

Speaker 3: 40:58

A lot of people don't realize their assets include their investment accounts, their 401k is their, you know all those kinds of things. So you probably have more assets than you think and it's a good idea to think about it. People don't really want to face their mortality, but there's nothing wrong with it. And then, once it's done, you don't think about it for a little while again.

Speaker 1: 41:21

There was a. It wasn't one of my clients, but it was a friend of mine. His client passed away and had like just a really basic like hey, these assets go here, da-da-da, and they didn't realize there was. I forget what it was, but some type of antique in the sky's attic and was worth like tens of thousands of dollars and it wasn't anywhere. So there was like a battle royale of all of the family members. They're like oh no, but like I touched that when I was two and it was like, oh man, like I wish this was like in the will too.

Speaker 3: 41:51

Yeah, and sometimes with family members too, a big thing that we talk about. Typically we're like tell me about your family members, tell me about your kids. Usually, if it's a parent coming in or a couple and they have children, I want to hear about their children.

Speaker 2: 42:09

Yeah, of course.

Speaker 3: 42:10

Are they financially responsible? Are they of age where you know, maybe they're 25, but they are still partying all the time and living at home and maybe they shouldn't come into contact with a bunch of money very quickly? Like you may want to think about how to protect them and their future. If something were to happen to you or and kid number two might be great and super responsible, and so, just kind of, we talk about the family dynamics and that's another portion of why it's just good to go have those conversations, because when everything just distributes equally and you're not thinking, maybe that's not the best idea. That's, my job is to ask those questions and make recommendations so that what you want is actually what will happen.

Speaker 2: 43:01

Interesting.

Speaker 3: 43:02

I love all of that.

Speaker 2: 43:05

So one of my last questions as a small business owner, what the success look like for you?

Speaker 3: 43:11

Yeah, I personally I think. I think obviously success looks different to everybody. Some people they measure by money or they measure by happiness. I like to measure my success with growth and what I leave behind.

Speaker 3: 43:29

As I was saying earlier, my reputation and what my word is very important to me and when I left Phoenix, I left a really tight knit workers comp community and an attorney that I've worked with there since the day I became an attorney is at a conference right now the annual workers comp conference and he's just texting me like just telling me how it's going and all the defense attorneys and the plaintiffs attorneys are in one place.

Speaker 3: 43:54

It's actually super fun. Everyone gets along pretty well. But he was saying that people were I mean, I've been this is the second conference that I will miss because that I miss because I'm not in Arizona. He was saying that people were asking how I was doing and that they really miss working with me and that they you know good things about. It sounds like what I left behind was a good reputation and that I helped my clients and that I made a good impression on people and to me that feels successful. And then, taking what I've learned and growing that here in Wilmington. I think growth is super important. Learning and growing is success to me.

Speaker 1: 44:34

That's awesome. So, with that being said to then, one of my last questions is if you were to tell your younger self one thing, what would it be?

Speaker 3: 44:41

Oh I would say have more confidence in yourself. When I first went to law school, there were a lot of people being like, don't go to law school, like you're not going to graduate, it's super expensive, like you're going to just it's going to horrible career, and I was really upset and stressed out about it. For a long time I wasn't super confident. Sometimes I'm not confident now, but it definitely took me a good 10 years to build the confidence that I have now and I think I just didn't believe in myself as much as I definitely should have.

Speaker 3: 45:15

Sometimes I would make myself smaller so that others could be bigger, and I just I don't believe in that anymore and I would just tell 25 year old Victoria starting her first legal job to just be yourself and be confident in who you are. You have the skills and you are where you are because that's where you're supposed to be. You've earned it and go with that, and I would tell that to anybody also that is young, nervous, especially women. It's a really scary field to get into when you're a young woman and you're entering the legal profession. It's very male dominated field, and so I think the confidence is something that I wish I had more of when I was younger.

Speaker 2: 46:00

That's great. So where can people find you in? Order to use your resources.

Speaker 3: 46:09

Yeah, I'm not on a lot of social media. I should be. That's something down the road I'm going to work on, but right now you can email me directly. My email is victoria, or at less dash legal dot net, or our website is at less dash legal dot net and you can my phone numbers on there and that's the quickest way to get in contact with me. Nice.

Speaker 1: 46:33

Well, if you need help with your social medias, you should use Sway creation, which is who we use 100%.

Speaker 2: 46:39

They make life so much easier.

Speaker 1: 46:41

It is true that we wouldn't have near as much as on our Instagram, so just want to throw them out there too, all the help that they've been able to provide for us.

Speaker 2: 46:49

So yeah, my for a last silly question for you. Have. Do you ever read court transcripts and just laugh your ass off?

Speaker 3: 47:00

I follow an Instagram account for somebody who doesn't do a lot of work social media I follow like the memes on Instagram and there's like some legal related ones where there's typos or like funny things that are said in court transcripts.

Speaker 1: 47:13

And.

Speaker 3: 47:13

I just I send them to my friends. I laugh so hard. I don't know if people laugh as hard as I do, but I do. It's so funny.

Speaker 1: 47:20

I think I follow that too.

Speaker 3: 47:21

Yeah, I forget what it's called, but it's really funny. But yeah, I do. Sometimes I used to read my own court transcripts fact and be like why did I say that? Like what, why did I? You know what happened? I never called you a judge, your Highness, but I know some people get really nervous and instead of saying your honor, they say your Highness or something. So sometimes I have like horrible dreams of that happening to me.

Speaker 2: 47:45

That's hilarious. So yeah, I just didn't know, because as a normal person, I'm like some of these court transcripts are hilarious, so I didn't know if, like, lawyers thought that too.

Speaker 3: 47:54

Yeah, sometimes I say really dumb stuff by accident because I'm nervous, and then you have to read about it and it's published and you're like, oh great, there was me like saying a hundred times because I was too nervous or something like that.

Speaker 1: 48:06

Yeah, I hear that too, when I have to go through our transcript before I edit it and everything on this. But I get to edit it the way I want it to. The court transcript is not as forgiving, unfortunately.

Speaker 2: 48:17

No, unfortunately, but thank you for coming on today.

Speaker 1: 48:22

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 48:23

Absolutely Thank you. I learned so much yeah.

Speaker 3: 48:26

I'm happy. I just I hope that people listening learn too and just know that if you have a question or you're interested in learning more, probably see me out at different things or you can ask me. I'm friendly, I'm not going to bite and I would welcome the questions.

Speaker 2: 48:41

Awesome. Well, yeah, look her up. We'll have all our stuff listed in the show notes, as usual, to help us out. Like, comment, share, subscribe, you know, leave us a nice five star review or subscribe to our YouTube channel. That also helps us out. Yeah, yeah, have a good one. We will catch you in the next one.

Speaker 1: 48:57

Cheers.

Speaker 2: 48:58

Cheers.