Introducing The Underfront Co. w/ Joe & Chip

This week we bring on Joe and Chip, the developers of The Underfront Co,, Rum Cow, Taco Baby, and WTF in Wilmington, NC. We had a great time discussing cocktail creation, building businesses, and great conversation over one of our favorite questions... how would you define success? 

Please consider visiting Underfront Co. in downtown Wilmington, NC. 

Transcript

Chris: 0:31

Welcome back everybody. This week we are on location. In a new bar slash lounge in downtown Wilmington. A place I've been many times, but not as, as this title or name. What's the entity?

Also Joe: 0:45

Entity? There we go. Yeah, there we go. Under front, under front. The under front company. Very fancy. Mm-hmm. I like it. Just so

Tyler: 0:52

everyone knows. If you've been here for a long time, evidently it was called Cowboys a long,

Also Joe: 0:56

long time now. Way back in the day, 20 years ago. Then Fire Bellies

Tyler: 1:00

Chris. Yeah, Chris and I know it as Fire Bellies and Dead Crow comedy. But now it has a brand new face as the under front company. Yeah, and it's pretty cool spot here, down here. Enjoy being one of the first on location spots now. Yeah.

Chris: 1:14

So this week Asper usually of myself, Chris, and Tyler. And then we have the owners. Developers. Yeah. Owners.

Also Joe: 1:21

I'm Joe Seto and

Actually Joe: 1:22

this is, I'm Ivan Moore. And absent from our panel is my wife Abby, who helps us with design and just practical implementation of concept design. Nice. Awesome. That's great.

Chris: 1:33

Keeps us on track. Yeah. You didn't design this whole setup,

Also Joe: 1:37

this, this setup design itself. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this is a basement. So the beauty of a basement is that you can't change

Actually Joe: 1:44

a whole bunch, you just gotta make it work. So you know, this, this thing really just kind of immediately spoke to it itself. I mean, it, it told us what it wanted to be. We had to go through and we had to preserve the elements that were cool in the beginning. So

Also Joe: 1:55

all these timbers are old. These are 120 year old timbers. Wow. You're looking at three main beams that are 40 feet long, that are hard of pine. So me and Chip both did construction

Actually Joe: 2:04

and worked with our hands. So sa sanded those bad boys down. Step number one, preserve what's

Joe: 2:09

here. Yep. Wow. Sanded them down a little bit. Smoothed them out. Lot of Dana, a whole lot of Dana Shore. Yeah. Same goes for the floors. They're the original floors. We just ground'em down and and stain

Actually Joe: 2:17

the, but does not fun. Never do that. Never

Joe: 2:20

very dusty. I would not recommend it to anybody.

Actually Joe: 2:22

Yeah. So a lot of this kind of stuff is just preserving the original elements and then we, especially like the juxtaposition of, of old and new. So yeah, we went for this kind of art deco style in the back, and then when it's just put directly against this seller, early 19 hundreds style, you know beam and brick structure. It's just, it's just gorgeous man.

Also Joe: 2:42

It really is. I love this layout.

Chris: 2:43

So because it's a. Lounge with amazing drinks and options. We were given two new drinks to try out.

Joe: 2:54

So these are a couple of our our house originals riffs on older drinks, obviously. Mm-hmm. They are riffs on classic cocktails. You've got the Manhattan Clandestino, so we're doing several different fat wash spirits. So that's a duck fat washed bullet rye whiskey. Mm. And then for for the sweet vermouth, we're actually subbing out tomorrow of Verna and then it gets some of our house double black bitters that that Joe's whipped up in the kitchen back there. Oh, nice. On the other one, you've got a bacon washed old fashioned, which is actually originally the Bittons Bacon Old Fashioned. We've smoked that with pecan smoke. Gets a little maple syrup orange Bitters and Angus store. Hmm. So that, that's kind of some of my, some of my favorite cocktail stuff is doing ribs on classic

Also Joe: 3:33

whiskey cocktails. Yeah. Yeah. And then modern technique. I don't know if you guys have any experience with fat washing or not.

Chris: 3:39

I've had drinks that have been fat washed. I had a peanut butter washed Yeah. A

Also Joe: 3:43

couple weeks ago. Yeah. Peanut butter was like on the list, man. Yes.

Chris: 3:46

But yeah, once we try this you'll have to definitely explain a little bit more about like the washing and how you guys ended up making up your own. Sure.

Also Joe: 3:55

Yeah. Setups right here. You

Joe: 3:57

guys go for the Manhattan. That's the Manhattan. Yep.

Chris: 3:59

Of course. I take it. Oh, I don't care. And as per usual, I get an old fashioned.

Also Joe: 4:03

Cheers. Cheers.

Tyler: 4:04

That's very good. Thank you

Also Joe: 4:06

Kathryn. Yes. So it should pretty immediately come through. Oh yeah. Oh, that's so good. Yeah,

Actually Joe: 4:12

so we're, we're just adding a kind of

Also Joe: 4:14

new dynamic to it. The history with fat washing is, is pretty simple, like most things are. It started, I guess, with perfumers that we're trying to extract essential, essential oils to use in perfumes, and then it got kind of translated and then modern science came along and learned that things are fat and water soluble. And

Actually Joe: 4:31

that alcohol does a little bit of both. So using a duck fat or a bacon fat or any kind of oil, like coconut oil is one that we use. Sesame oil, peanut butter it melts it literally melts the fats down and infuses inside the spirit. Very similar to an infusion, but it does give you added viscosity and really all your transferring not so much protein more just the literal flavor of.

Joe: 4:55

Flavor, aroma and the, and the mouth feel. And the mouth feel, yeah.

Also Joe: 4:58

Oh, for sure.

Tyler: 4:58

Yeah. That's always what I notice first too. Is it, it just feels different.

Joe: 5:02

Yep. Yep. And that's that added viscosity, you know, so you, you filter out all of the all of the solids in there, but it still leaves that little richness to it.

Also Joe: 5:10

Yeah. Pretty, pretty easy method too. So it really is. There's not

Joe: 5:12

much to it. It just takes little

Also Joe: 5:13

time. Yeah. If you wanted to fat wash a bourbon at the house with peanut butter, you would just take peanut butter, put it inside bour, mix it up real good, let it sit for about

Actually Joe: 5:20

24 hours,

Also Joe: 5:21

And then just freeze it solid so that it separates.

Joe: 5:25

Gotta filter it a few times too. You don't,

Also Joe: 5:27

yeah, you gotta filter it in the

Joe: 5:29

several times actually. Yeah. That's really the most time consuming process is just filter. Yeah, filter. Well, you know, you gotta let it freeze, but

Also Joe: 5:35

yeah.

Chris: 5:36

So. As we're trying all these, and my main question is, what kind of bacon did you use? So I used Smith

Also Joe: 5:45

Smithfield. He's a Smithfield guy. Smithfield gonna be Smithfield.

Joe: 5:48

Think thick. Cut apple Wood bacon. Okay.

Chris: 5:50

Well, I'm weird because I was watching a video a couple weeks ago and they're like, what are the different kinds of bacon that you prefer? Do you want like that floppy bacon, or do you want the crispy

Joe: 6:00

bacon? You want a really s smokey bacon and you want to cook it real low and slow. Okay. To really get the flavor out of it. Nice. It, it, it's been BLT night at my house for about the last month.

Also Joe: 6:10

I love it. I wanna meet the guy that prefers floppy bacon. Just as a side note, is that the, you're the guy that I'm not floppy guy. I like, I like crispy bacon. Are you a floppy bacon guy?

Chris: 6:19

No, I am like a right in between. All right. Like, I don't need it super floppy, but I don't want it crispy to break my teeth.

Also Joe: 6:26

If you held it with your two fingers and went like this, would it fall down and touch? No. Okay. So you're a cri that, that, that's, that's medium. Crisp. Sturdy, sturdy, sturdy

Chris: 6:35

bacon. Yeah. That should be an

Joe: 6:36

option. I, I wanna tap it and it shatter

Also Joe: 6:39

That's, yeah,

Tyler: 6:40

that's crisp. I'm not, I'm not quite a, that crisp that's

Chris: 6:43

like bacon

Also Joe: 6:43

bits to me. So I think, I think I actually, yeah, pretty much by the time I think my father-in-law, no, no. Nevermind, I'm wrong, but there's someone in my life that, like we were at an IHOP one. And they asked for extremely floppy bacon, almost not cooked. And I almost left Like, I almost like walked out outside. What of the way? I was like, there's dope. They were just like, what? I mean, it just did, it did compute. It was just like a, a total silence across the entire IHOP I love

Chris: 7:11

it. So now that we've talked about drinks for a little bit, we'll, we'll jump back. I like to go forward and then back like my favorite movies. Where are you guys from? Because you don't sound like Willians, I guess.

Joe: 7:22

I'm originally from like a mile and a half down the road in Smithfield, North Carolina. Okay.

Chris: 7:27

It's been a mile since I've been up there. Yeah. I'm

Joe: 7:29

not, not a whole lot going on up there, but it's a nice place to grow up. Nice. Quiet town. Yeah.

Also Joe: 7:32

We're both North Carolinians. I'm from Morganton, North Carolina. Okay. But lived in Greensboro for about 15 years. So I think I think when you're born North Carolina, especially in rural North Carolina, you really work hard to get rid of. The accents, the accent.

Joe: 7:46

Yeah. I, I don't, and when I ever, whenever actually hear this, you know, again, I'm gonna sound like a country bucket, every time, every time it shocks me how much I sound like, boom. Hower. When I'm

Also Joe: 7:57

I, I, I was embarrassed when I was a kid and like especially in middle school, I mean, like, they're gonna, they're gonna call you out and like, I remember I used to you know, pronounce certain

Actually Joe: 8:03

words wrong and I, I made a concerted effort to like lose

Also Joe: 8:06

the accent and I wish I had it now. Cause I think that it's super cool to have a sophisticated southern accent. I think it sounds great. Right? Well, I

Chris: 8:14

always ask not because like people, I feel like, oh, you're super southern. Wilmington itself has like three accents and everyone looks and you're like, well yeah, cuz Carolina Beach has one Wilmington proper and then like, Carolina Beach definitely has one. Yeah. Well, castle Hayne has its own accent and like to me that's Wilmington. It's like New Hanover County. But I'm like, hmm, I can tell if there's a difference. I technically grew up here and I don't have a super crazy accent.

Also Joe: 8:40

Yeah. I wanna have pegged you as a Wilton. Yeah. My mom was a

Chris: 8:43

school

Also Joe: 8:43

teacher, so was like, let's, yeah. She was strict.

Joe: 8:46

My, my mother was a English teacher for 40 years.

Chris: 8:48

Whew. I applaud her. Me too, me

Also Joe: 9:17

too. Every day. Stuck it out.

Chris: 9:19

Yeah. I think my mom, she's been teaching 34 years and

Also Joe: 9:23

I'm like, good

Chris: 9:24

honor.

Joe: 9:24

Yeah. I don't know how you do it.

Chris: 9:26

No, I would never, having multiple years teaching with so much changes from year to year, I'm like, I can't even do it.

Also Joe: 9:34

I, I recently heard that they stopped teaching cursive. Yes. I'm, I'm kind of sad

Joe: 9:39

about that. Yeah, they did. My my daughter's seven. She's in the first grade. No cursive. That's crazy.

Chris: 9:44

I didn't learn cursive till like third

Also Joe: 9:45

grade. I'd say that's about par for me too, but now it's just totally gone. They're

Joe: 9:51

not, they're not gonna teach it. I mean, they barely need to know how to use a pencil at this point, you know?

Chris: 9:55

Right.

Also Joe: 9:55

Are pencils not a thing anymore? Nah, they are. They're, but

Joe: 9:59

they won't be by the time she's in the third grade. I mean, I just put it on your tablet.

Chris: 10:02

A lot of things are going to tech, so like, almost every school is shooting to have like an iPad or a computer. So then you're typing everything instead

Also Joe: 10:10

of writing. Exactly. You know, I rail against that, like, and I immediately did like the thumbs down, but like, it's so rare that I write that I went to write the other day and it's just deteriorated so much. Mm-hmm. Cuz I'm just so used to texting. I write all the time. See, that's good. You're, you're maintaining it and you don't have to write all the time, I'm sure. Oh no. Choose to.

Chris: 10:30

Well, I write because I take notes of like, if someone comes in and talks to me, I wanna write it down, right? So if I write it, I'll remember it. If I type it, I'll be like, huh. It's

Joe: 10:38

all the same. I keep a little notebook too, and I'm, I'm the same way. If I actually physically write it down, I remember I wanna start

Also Joe: 10:43

doing that. I find that very classy. I do. Yeah. I like the notebooks. You have like a little leather bound satchel notebook thing that you write. I can carry it everywhere. Yeah.

Tyler: 10:52

I have the same exact thing too. So if like I need to remember it or like taking notes on something, like that's where it goes and that's where it stays. And then I know where

Also Joe: 10:58

it's at. That's where I get, I send my wife random texts that are totally have no contact with Wooden

Actually Joe: 11:03

lawn 3 35. She's like, what are you talking about? the wifi password. Save it for me. What's that? I

Tyler: 11:08

have been known to do that as well too. And she'll be like, just send me a bunch of question

Actually Joe: 11:11

marks. Keeper of all,

Tyler: 11:12

what, what's going on? Yeah. What does that mean? Love it. So how did you guys originally get together and meet. So

Joe: 11:19

we were both in business on Elm Street in downtown Wilmington. About the time on Greensboro, or excuse me. No, Greensboro. Yeah. And about the time we were closing down a bar I was at, Joe was opening a cigar bar or taking over Churchills Churchill cigar

Also Joe: 11:32

bar for Greensboro folks.

Joe: 11:33

Mm-hmm. incredible, incredible bar back in the day. and so yeah, we were like three doors down. So I started working over there and we just, me and him and his wife Abigail just made fast friends and we were buddies for years and years, you know, we worked together. I moved down here, I guess what, 10 or 12 years ago? Yeah, yeah. And and we kept up, you know, and they would either come down here once a month or I'd go down or go up there and just visit and hang out. Right. And finally, I guess six years or so ago yeah, about six, maybe seven. Yeah. And we opened Whiskey, tango, Foxtrot,

Also Joe: 12:00

and yeah, he gave me a call and I was like, man, there's, there's just nothing, nothing here to the caliber of cocktail wise that's happening in Greensboro. So we should look at some spots. And I remember we were staying on our buddies yacht and we came down here and you know, It was super cool. It was just like a cool scene. Like our buddy had this crazy boat parked there, like, just

Actually Joe: 12:17

take the keys. I was like, I don't wanna take the keys. Yeah.

Joe: 12:19

It was like parked right downtown, you know, it was

Also Joe: 12:21

like, I just felt like super

Joe: 12:22

fancy. Yeah. I was single at the time. He was like, yeah, I'll, I'll leave you a key. You can hang out on the boat any, anytime you want. I was like, really? Don't

Also Joe: 12:30

mind if that was awesome. Yeah. And then we, it's all Gray Street and it was just a mess. And yeah. You know, I don't know, we were still in kind of the fake it till you make it phase. Back then, like we, we had done some stuff and like Churchill's it was a, it was a big bar. It was successful and did well, but it was still just kind of like a, you know, the tip of the iceberg from like a, a cocktail perspective. Yeah. And, and just general business depth, you know, I mean we came down here and, you know, we had a, a budget and we had to make it happen. You know, I, I've always liked doing construction, so we were doing a lot of construction, but I was commuting back and forth to Greensboro and working torch shells five days a week and then coming back here and doing construction a couple days a week. And yeah, I was, kept us in here like trying to knock

Joe: 13:08

it out. I was about to say, I was trying to knock it out construction while like working in Greensboro. Yeah, yeah. I'm like working three jobs, you know, trying to learn everything I can about cocktails and, and pay the bills and, well, I'm outta of money. I gotta work three jobs tonight. I gotta work till five o'clock

Actually Joe: 13:21

in morning.

Also Joe: 13:22

Yeah. And Whiskey Tango came out beautiful. That was the first place we built and we did about a square mile of wood antiquing, you know Pinewood slabs to build all that stuff and lot of sand and stuff. This was so much fun, man. We just had a good time. Like we bring a, well don't tell anyone but a couple of 20 twos up there, and just sit and drink a few beers and sanded and stained for 18 hours and drive back to Greensboro slip sleep on chip's couch. It's

Joe: 13:45

like, all right, I gotta get up on the scaffolding. I need a couple more. 20 twos

Also Joe: 13:49

Scaffolding was not fun. Not fun. But it was really cool. It was a good experience. And then you know, gray Street, I don't know if you guys remember the Brown Coat Theater or not, but mm-hmm. Yeah. It wasn't it wasn't in good shape, so it was our first like big, you know, remodel,

Joe: 14:01

snafu and didn't know what we were getting into. It ended up being like a down to the bear studs had to do mold remediation. Yeah. There was, there was a lot going on. But, you know, part of the reason why we got into it when we got into it was because it was apparent to us that, that that whole section over there, that Gray Street was just around the corner from being up and coming. Mm mm-hmm.

Also Joe: 14:19

and the hotels have

Actually Joe: 14:20

just come. I mean, we had the Hampton in the Marriott.

Joe: 14:22

Yeah. The Marriott had been there for a little while, and then the Hampton opened a week before we did at Whiskey Tango. Wow, okay. So it was just kind like, there's no way this isn't gonna be a popular strip if we can put something, you know, worth making the trip, you know, extra couple blocks

Also Joe: 14:35

down

Actually Joe: 14:35

here. Yeah. People just looked over that spot and, and I said this before, and I, I think it's really true. It's like the one time in life that we've gotten in before it was hot. Mm-hmm. like mm-hmm. no one was thinking about it. Everyone was thinking about, you know, marketing front and We just looked at it and we're like, man, we want this whole block. So we got that whole block at some point. I'm say Angie did Yeah. Yeah. Over

Also Joe: 14:52

the course of a few years. Yeah. And like, it, it, it, it had the intended impact. I mean, I think downtown's kind of

Actually Joe: 14:58

shifted this way. I mean, you know, we, we've driven business here and been able to kind of cultivate a community. The, you know, in some part we were responsible for designing. So like, it, it, it's very

Also Joe: 15:08

thematic and under front

Actually Joe: 15:10

fits right in the mix of'em, which I think is great. It's

Also Joe: 15:13

yeah, it's cool to actually you know, kind

Actually Joe: 15:14

of be able to dictate your own terms of what

Joe: 15:17

Well then, and then yeah. Since, since we've since we've been down here too you know, like I said, it's just been, it hasn't been a, like self-fulfilling prophecy, but all the new high-end apartments down here mm-hmm. the amphitheater, you know, those have all come up in the last six years.

Actually Joe: 15:27

And then the rumors of pedestrian drinking, that, that seems like it's gonna happen. I think Live

Also Joe: 15:33

fingers crossed be so excited for that. Well, it, it's been, it's been talked about

Actually Joe: 15:37

for the last year and I think a lot of that agendas getting pushed by Live Nation and they just have massive amounts of power and pull, you know, and city planning and development. So I think that you know, what we're seeing is development that's kind of hinging with that partnership with Live Nation. And the more they can do, the better, you know, and you know, Wilmington's, you know, water locked. So I, I think that we're in a really great place to be the center of, you know, future expansion. So that's why we're back in this area. You know, not only are we just partial to it, that's

Joe: 16:07

our neighborhood now too. We've been down here for six years and know all the faces and, and all of our businesses up to this point, including under front have been more directed towards, you know, a little bit more mature, not wild, you know, falling out the door drunk kids. Yeah. You know? So I think a lot of our clientele appreciates the fact that they can walk a couple of blocks further down the street on a Friday or Saturday night and it's not such a melee. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tyler: 16:30

I'll be honest too, when, when I hit up Chris to say like, Hey, like, we need to go interview these guys. Whiskey, tango Foxtrot was one of my favorite places to go because I've, I've never been that, like college, let's go down and get like wasted at two o'clock in the morning. Mm-hmm. Whiskey, tango, Foxtrot came around when I was down here for like three years, so it came like perfect time for me. So I was one of the first people through the door and one of the last, like when you guys left. So I love that. And the same thing when you did with like taco Baby and Ro Cow and all of that too. Just having that like little bit of an upper echelon that you kind of brought to the downtown. I really appreciate that. Oh yeah. Well,

Actually Joe: 17:03

thank, thank you kindly. Yeah. And just, just to clarify, we did sell Whiskey Tango three years ago and I do wanna shout out that people that own it now we, we have made decisions in the past and it's, it's just strategic business decisions. But Joe

Also Joe: 17:14

Aine has been doing an amazing job at keeping up the

Actually Joe: 17:16

standards and I, I fully support those guys and, and want to be part of that community cuz I, I respect them as business folks. when we sell something, we don't, we don't sell it lightly. We, we are serious about the people that we sell our content concepts to because Absolutely. We, we, we we're

Joe: 17:31

gonna be remembered for it. Yeah. We're gonna be remembered for it, and we want it to be around 20 years down the road, you know? Yeah. Because it is all our own blood and sweat and tears that go

Also Joe: 17:38

into it.

Actually Joe: 17:38

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, the credit now is due to, due to them, and they're, they're maintaining it. They're expanding it. And those are, those are great guys. They're making it happen.

Joe: 17:46

Yeah. And, you know, hopefully with everything that's pushing this way, you know, we've been talking about it for a few years, you know, we're kind of trying to develop like a, a downtown cocktail district, more or less Yeah. Cocktail district. So, you know, instead of bar hopping you know, if you're a kid and you're bar hopping and hitting all the dive bars and all that, that's cool. If you're a little bit older and you want to the same experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Instead of bar crawling you, you know, Sache sa train, sa train from cocktail bar to cocktail

Also Joe: 18:12

work. Well, that's just the reality in our business. You know? I mean when you come down you know, I mean, you're gonna stay for a couple drinks for sure. You know? Yeah. I, I don't think

Actually Joe: 18:19

any bar or restaurant that I've had, I think this is our, our sixth concept and I don't think that I've ever thought

Also Joe: 18:25

that I could keep people

Actually Joe: 18:25

for more than two hours. I think that that's about the, the, the point, right? Yeah. Like, I try stuff, it gets saturated. You want turnover and inside so that there's kind of fresh faces and fresh energy. So it's just kind of

Also Joe: 18:36

you know, about appropriate, you know, you, you want, you want people to go from

Actually Joe: 18:41

whiskey tango to the vibe to under front. You want people to feel safe in this area. Gotta

Joe: 18:46

have dinner, tuck baby or rum cow, you know? And,

Actually Joe: 18:49

and I like the district system. Like, you go to a lot of major cities and like you can, you can go to places that are specific for like what you want to be catered to, like, you know, you Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Also Joe: 18:59

I like

Chris: 18:59

just thinking about that is like, oh, you know, doing the cocktail, cuz. I remember, oh, hey, you know, we're doing a bar crawl. Let's go from here to here. And I'm like,

Also Joe: 19:09

Yaba, Yaba, Yaba. Do I really want another?

Chris: 19:11

But I like having that option, especially because I feel like Wilmington is growing and expanding and there hasn't really been a lot of options where it's like, oh, hey, let's have, let's go have a drink at a really high end spot besides like, sitting on top of the hotels. Mm-hmm. And I feel like you guys are, which

Actually Joe: 19:29

is

Also Joe: 19:29

also cool. Yeah.

Actually Joe: 19:30

Right.

Chris: 19:31

And Hazard Place. I don't want to go take everybody there. I like to expand and I, I like to invest in the town. So like, if I have the opportunity, yeah. Let's, let's go over here. Let's try something new out. And I think you guys are doing a great job. Kind of appreciate, thank you very

Also Joe: 19:46

much. Those options. And hopefully people keep on coming. I mean, you know, we, we do

Actually Joe: 19:49

have kind of like a diversified, you know, we're vertically integrated over on the mm-hmm. you know, the north side here. You've got casual dining, you've got Rum cal realistically, Is almost fine dining. Like it's it's casual, fine dining. Like the, the food that we cooked there for the last, you know, five years is, is everything. I've worked fine dining my whole life and all those techniques and, and, and methods and plates and presentation

Also Joe: 20:12

is there. So,

Actually Joe: 20:13

I consider it casual, fine dining. And then we've got a good scene for after dinner drinks with with the three of us at three cocktail bars down here. So hopefully it just drives continual traffic and growth to this area,

Also Joe: 20:24

which is

Chris: 20:24

kind of the thing that I, I feel like Wilmington is needed. Mm-hmm. Because I've lived here my whole life, so I remember when everything, like you said was on market in front, and if you went over like half a block, you're like, oh, nope. Yep, yep. Which is kind of crazy to think. Well, you know,

Tyler: 20:39

I was gonna say the same thing too. Like, my wife and I would come down here to, it's like, do whatever downtown. And the only place to go next was like islands. When that finally went in down there and you're like, okay, it's completely dark. Is this safe to be down over this

Joe: 20:53

side? Well, on Gray Street 10 years ago. I mean, when I first, I guess 10 or 12 years ago when I first moved down here, you didn't, I mean, didn't really go down

Also Joe: 21:00

Gray Street. Yeah. I mean, how many times did we hear on Gray Street? Like people would tell us that the, the two most common ones was that it was just chronic failure that every place, no one lasted a year. It was the curse of the one year on Gray Street. And then they were all haunted and you know, you're on the wrong side of town. You're on the wrong side of market, all this stuff.

Actually Joe: 21:16

Well,

Joe: 21:16

you know, it used to be pretty rough before the before the Marriott was there. Yeah. You know, that, that did a lot to well, you know, the Marriott and the Embassy Suites and everything too, like the hotels I think in part, and the amphitheater are doing a lot to just kind of,

Also Joe: 21:28

well, it's kind of a natural progression too. I mean, like, you know, Wilston downtown is locked

Actually Joe: 21:32

by the river, so I

Also Joe: 21:33

mean, like, it's gotta, it's gotta expand. I mean, things gotta grow. Wilmington was the The, the number one city for, or number two city for growth in

Actually Joe: 21:40

2020, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Like we, we got a massive,

Also Joe: 21:45

I think that it's actually been passed over to Leland, if I'm not mistaken. I think it's the number one percentage growth city in 2022.

Tyler: 21:51

Yeah. Which is also a good thing for you guys too. Yeah. Because as soon as you come over the bridge, cuz when, when you're in Leland, you want to go for Isabella Homes. Cause I, I live in Leland, so it's, it's, you don't that jump. Yeah. Cause that's just a whole other beast within itself. So you go for Isabella Homes, you're the first stop over here with, never do with the majority of your stuff. And then of course you sell like the vibe too is kind of down there. And so like that whole kind of district and it, it's a whole lot less crowded. It's a lot less busy. It, it, it doesn't feel like the college crowd that you're used to feeling downtown. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I really appreciate too. So it feels nice, it feels upscale. That's what I really, I really like about it. And what. To kind of build off of that, what made you want to start bringing that upscale nest to Wilmington, other than you didn't feel that

Joe: 22:37

it was here? Oh, we, we are getting older for one. Yeah, I was

Also Joe: 22:40

about to say that's a natural.

Joe: 22:41

I, I'd been down here for years though before we opened Whiskey Tango, and I wanted more of that myself. You know, it's like you were saying earlier Chris, it's it's fun, you know, when you're in your twenties to go out and hit all the bars and have a rowdy time on a Friday or Saturday night, you know, you get older, you get in your thirties, that gets tired pretty quick, you know, and it got to the point that I wouldn't have want to go out on a Friday or Saturday night. It's like, okay, well obviously there's something missing here. You know, I'm a grownup that wants to go out and have a good time. I got money to spend, but I don't wanna go out there and get in the middle of that. So why is there not a, a better option?

Also Joe: 23:13

Yeah, yeah. And and, and it works, you know, I mean that's, you know like with Churchills, I mean, I was on the middle of Elm Street and Greensboro, which is You know, dumping out 10,000 college aged kids from 15 clubs and, you know, I mean, it's just, it's chaos. And I walked into this super chaotic scene with a, a, a very upscale venue. And we were a cigar lounge. And you know, trying to figure out how to navigate inside that, that kind of subculture of like the club scene became like the thing. And what we did is we enforced the strict dress code. Yeah. We, we enforced age limits. And what we found is that you know, everyone, everyone wants to be a part of everything. I mean, it's just kind like a natural drive. Like everyone still wants to bear witness to like the craziness. They just don't wanna be part of it. So we became like the calm little center of the world on Elm Street. You know, we, we'd sit,

Joe: 24:01

sit on the patio and watch the chaos and sit zero

Actually Joe: 24:04

fights.

Also Joe: 24:04

Yeah. We, we, we just, we. Got upstanding folks and they still enjoyed it, but from a distance. So I mean, I, I've seen it in action and, and kind of terraforming and like I mean, especially Greensboro, like just because when I was there 10 years ago, like it, it was kind of at its worst, I suppose. Mm-hmm. it was a rough scene for sure. A lot of stuff going on, a lot of, lot of violence and being able to survive in that kind of environment and, and really thrive by doing upscale is like,

Actually Joe: 24:31

oh, well there, there's a great market for this. Yeah. Not to go

Tyler: 24:34

like too far down this rabbit hole, but just something on top of my head and I've been thinking about too. Is there something that keeps you from opening a cigar bar in Wilmington?

Also Joe: 24:44

Well, so Whiskey Tango was actually a cigar bar, I believe it or not. Okay. Yeah. So we sold cigars. I was in the cigar business for a long time. I mean, the, the easy answer to that is yes, there, there's a lot of legislative changes in the last 10 years that prevent you from doing indoor smoking, so, mm-hmm. Wilmington's not a good spot because the number one legislative change is that it has to be a freestanding building. So, I mean, I've opened other cigar bars since Churchills and since that legislation. But the stuff that you have to do to get through it is, is, is not super viable down here. It's

Joe: 25:15

incredibly prohibitive and expensive

Also Joe: 25:16

and Yeah. Well, yeah. And like a downtown environment, it's, it's a lot harder. Like, I could do one, but like I, I, I feel most comfortable downtown. Yeah. And, and there's just not a lot of spots that would be available for it, more than anything. Right. And I don't smoke anymore, so that, that's another kind of easy that ate there. Yeah. Wow. I started smoking, I mean, like a lot of young North Carolinians when I was 11 or 12. So, you know, I smoked until I was, you know early thirties and,

Actually Joe: 25:43

you know it, it just had an impact

Also Joe: 25:45

on me, you know, it had an impact on my health, so I, I stopped and cigars unfortunately were a casualty

Actually Joe: 25:49

of me stopping cigarettes. So Yeah.

Also Joe: 25:52

It's not, it's not my comfort zone anymore. More than anything. I guess. It

Chris: 25:56

makes sense. So transitioning from cigars, to cocktails. When you were at Churchills, did that have an effect on like the cocktails that you were making, if you were combining, like pairing them with cigars? Yes.

Also Joe: 26:08

It was like well, go ahead. I'm a scotch man. Churchills and cigars are inextricably linked scotch and cigars. I, I liked it in its simplest form. So from a cocktail perspective, sure. We did a lot of the classics. For me it was a rabbit hole of scotch and bourbon and what plain scotch or plain bourbon,

Actually Joe: 26:27

how it would augment a cigar. Yeah. I was gonna say

Joe: 26:29

that we always steered people towards towards a good whiskey to go. There's cigar more so than

Also Joe: 26:33

a very kind of like, old world kind of idea, is that you're, you're taking a scotch and that you're modifying

Actually Joe: 26:39

it with the flavor of your cigar.

Also Joe: 26:40

Mm-hmm. So I think that those things are, are such a strong pairing by themselves. I don't know that Churchills drove me further down a cocktail rabbit hole. It probably actually made me a purist more than anything. Scotch, scotch Rabbit hole. Yeah. Right. But, but I got scotch for a long, long time still into scotch. That's, that's my drink of choice. And it's hard for me to adulterate scotch. I, I just like to drink

Actually Joe: 27:02

it straight, Adam. And I don't blame you're there

Tyler: 27:05

at all. And so in your professional opinion, do you think the scotch and the cigars go to go well together because of that? Like, that pettiness, that petere of the, of the scotch?

Also Joe: 27:17

Yeah. Sure. I mean it depends on the sco, the cigar and the scotch. I mean I think the classic combination is a heated scotch with a mild to medium cigar. Okay. So that you're adding a floral bouquet to the cigar. Okay. Pete, Pete has a very intense if you don't drink it a lot kind of antiseptic quality, but

Actually Joe: 27:33

for me it's more of a floral quality.

Also Joe: 27:35

So, I think when you're rounding out like a earthy medium body Maduro rap cigar Mm, mm-hmm. That you get a lot of the earthiness, and then adding the bouquet from the scotch on top is really where the magic happens. And teaching people that kind of stuff has always been a passion of mine. I started in fine dining, so I went down the wine thing for a long, long time, way too long. And I, I just liked it. I liked when people kind of realized stuff, you know, about cigars and scotch, you know, I can take any man on the screen. I, you can see it on their face too, when it clicks. It's just, yeah. Yeah. And the first time you, you get a guy smoking a cigar and you give him a good ped scotch and you're like, all right, now just hold it right in the end. Mm-hmm. the end of your lip and let it wake up your tongue and then take a drag of your cigar and they're like, oh my God. It totally changed. I mean, that, that, that moment of realization, like there's a lot of. I don't know. There's a lot of you know, just kind of simple joys in the industry that we have. I mean, same thing applies to this. Doing, doing new techniques on, on classic drinks and just new techniques in general. It just expands people's, you know repertoire and they're excited to see it. And, and that's really what we kind of thrive on. And it's a really cool thing when you see someone kind of have this revelation of taste, you know, and I was a chef for a long time, so like, that's what it was always about. Like, it was always about being dynamic and adding flavor and you know, breaking the norms and exposing people to things that they wouldn't eat. You know, there's so many people that are just locked inside this small kind of macaroni and cheese box until you give them macaroni and cheese and lang augustina or, you know, something, something more creative that you can kind of introduce. And I think that that's the goal for us from like a creative perspective. I tried

Joe: 29:14

to get my daughter on Crab, Mac and cheese. Oh yeah. Fresh crab. It was delicious. Homemade mac and cheese. Turns out she's allergic to crab. So worst. Yeah, so, so her mac, her palate remains undeveloped.

Also Joe: 29:28

Yeah. But it's just fun, man. And like, you know, at the end of all this, like you know, me and Chip are just two adults that still get to play. Like, that's what we get to

Actually Joe: 29:35

do. Like, we are drinking. You have

Joe: 29:37

fun in the basement.

Actually Joe: 29:38

Yep. just playing, man. You know? And,

Also Joe: 29:41

and that's what you gotta get, you know? And

Actually Joe: 29:42

I don't know. We were retired for a couple of weeks and everyone's like, oh, you're not retired. I was like, I don't for three

Also Joe: 29:47

weeks. I dunno if I can, like, there's so much short term, so much creative energy. Like, you want to do something like you, you guys are doing something. Yes. Like everyone's gotta have like an outlet and like, you guys want to explore and, and we're just doing the same thing. It's just.

Actually Joe: 30:00

You know, it's a, it's a different edm, you know? Yeah. We'll definitely have

Tyler: 30:04

to introduce them to Anthony Tubbs, who he brought on the podcast. So he actually studied whiskey scotch in Scotland. Oh nice. But also has a dream of opening his own cigar bar as

Actually Joe: 30:18

well

Also Joe: 30:19

too. Oh, introduce me man. I'd open us to guard bar with quickness. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, but I don't, don't either. Right. The

Joe: 30:25

primary.

Tyler: 30:25

The primary, yeah, exactly. Finding the right person at the right time at the right opportunity. Yeah, absolutely.

Actually Joe: 30:32

That, I mean, yeah, I think that'd be great.

Also Joe: 30:34

And, and that's one thing, and in downtown Wilmington, I mean in, in Greensboro, just cuz it's kind of I don't know. Greensboro's denser and in a way from like a appetites perspective, like there's quite a few more, it's

Joe: 30:45

a lot more urban town. Yeah. It's more of a city, you know? Yeah. Well, always thought of Wilmington as a large town. Yeah. You know, or a small city, whereas Greensboro's a full

Also Joe: 30:53

blown city. Yeah. So the density's kind of there, but like we have scotch bars and like there's not a scotch bar here and in, in different cities. I mean, all over the world really. Like if you go to China. Oh, and just as a side note, if anyone is curious where all of the all of the good whiskey is Yeah. Where all the the high marks of your whiskey and scotch has gone. I went to China recently and that's

Actually Joe: 31:13

where it's, it's there. Yes. Way

Also Joe: 31:15

for sure. Yeah. Papi on every shelf and every like

Actually Joe: 31:17

random restaurant you

Also Joe: 31:18

go to. No, I'm sure. Sure. That's crazy. It was great. It was awesome. Really super excited. We'll take the Papi 20 years. You're go ahead and

Tyler: 31:26

bring it on. It's probably, and China is probably a decent price too.

Also Joe: 31:28

Yeah. And you know, the rules are kind of different there, so you gotta learn how to play by the rules Sure, yeah. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. I mean, from a pricing perspective, great. And, and producing really good whiskey on their own. I don't know if you guys have been through this Sun Tori

Actually Joe: 31:39

portfolio yet or nothing. Oh, okay.

Also Joe: 31:41

Yeah. Sun Tori a little bit. Mickey High Marks Yamazaki, high marks, like they're all making great scotch. Oddly enough,

Chris: 31:47

that was the first whiskey we tried on the podcast.

Also Joe: 31:51

Aki. Yeah. Oh yeah. Which one?

Chris: 31:52

Which one was it?

Tyler: 31:53

The 23. It was in the really beautiful floral bottle.

Actually Joe: 31:57

You guys

Also Joe: 31:58

had the 23 year old haki as your first. Care. That's, that's awesome. Hard act

Joe: 32:02

to follow. So,

Tyler: 32:03

so yeah, exactly. we sorted out

Also Joe: 32:06

super expensive. I've never even seen that bottle. Yeah, I, I'm aware of it existing, but like that, that's super,

Actually Joe: 32:12

super lucky. It was over at

Tyler: 32:13

the Ballast 23. Ballast has a

Actually Joe: 32:15

23 year

Tyler: 32:16

old. They, they did over a year ago.

Actually Joe: 32:18

That's awesome. I

Also Joe: 32:19

can tell you. Yeah, I'll look it up. Because Hibiki actually switched to a non age statement as, as have a lot of SCOs right. Because they've burned through their reserves and Hibiki now does like the harmony, but I don't think that you, I don't think you find many age statements. I, I certainly don't see'em in North Carolina often.

Actually Joe: 32:34

Yeah. Or,

Tyler: 32:35

or was it the harmony? I know they at least have that at rounds, but I don't know.

Joe: 32:39

I

Also Joe: 32:39

can't remember. So, so harmony it did have flowers that were painted on the bottle and it was it was not an age statement, but they did say that they were blending only 12 urine up whiskey into it. So I think, I think that was the one, the 23 year would've been about I'd say like eight or 900 bucks. Yeah, no, it was probably the harmony cause. Oh, well the Harmony was great.

Chris: 32:57

I was like, harmony. I was like, mm, I did not spend that for

Tyler: 33:00

my first drink. Well, no, it was, it, we just got a shot of it each, so, and it was, it was still expensive for both of us. It was like a hundred bucks.

Also Joe: 33:07

So Oh yeah. So you, you, you probably had an age statement Habi then. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's awesome. That's a good way to start, man. And then Yamazaki is kind of the big brother of Hibiki and okay. I've had the Yamazaki 18 one time and it was just, oh wow. Amazing. You're talking about a 99 point whiskey. So, yeah. Pretty incredible. It's, it's been

Chris: 33:26

an interesting year in general. So like, we're recording this like right at a year of having the podcast out and all of the different whiskeys that we've tried, cause we've only double tapped on it like three mm-hmm. But it's just been interesting to kind of see like what our flavor. Pallet, like how our pallets have opened up, like the profiles we've kind of tasted which you kind of pointed out like mixing certain things kind of opened your mind to other flavors. And I think that's like, just in general, it's been a cool experience. Little, oh yeah. That's definitely

Joe: 33:59

a lot of what we want to do with with our cocktail program here as well, is just, you know, introduce people to stuff that they wouldn't think of otherwise and that they might initially think, eh, and then just blow their mind. Yeah.

Tyler: 34:13

So who developed the cocktail menu here?

Joe: 34:15

I did and then our bar manager, Hailey contributed quite a bit and Joe's wife Abigail contributed quite a bit. Okay, very good.

Chris: 34:23

Yeah, I'm looking at this. So because we're in the cargo district most of the time we started out at the Starling for like trying out new whiskeys. I make a decent amount of money, but not enough to just be buying a bunch of bottles. Mm-hmm. And it's been interesting cuz kind of like you guys pointed out, knowing someone who can give you a good flavor profile and be like, okay, this is gonna taste good with this, or that'll taste better with that versus going to a, like I was telling Tyler the other week, you know, I hate going to the clubs because all I can ask for is like, mm. Can I get like a, you got a Whiskey ginger and they give you like a bottom shelf plastic bottle? Yeah. Babying ginger. Yeah. And you're just like, I can't, can't handle that anymore. But being at the Starling kind of opened my brain and looking at your menu now I'm just like super excited just because I went there and I've tried a bunch of things and like, I know if you find a good bartender or bar manager, someone who can get good flavors and knows what they're talking about, you can have. The best experience.

Joe: 35:30

Oh yeah. The world's your oyster. There's nothing that's really off limits

Also Joe: 35:33

here For sure. And it's customizable too. I mean, like, you know, so many times, and I mean, in my life individually, and I'm sure everyone else is, like, you just think of, you know, a, a Manhattan as a Manhattan, you know, it's made in the Manhattan Club. There's a specific recipe. That's what it is. But like, I don't, I don't understand why we impose those kind of rules on ourselves. Like there's no, there's no reason. Well, we don't Yeah, we don't, yeah. Like, I mean, that was his idea to switch over to tomorrow's for for vermouth subs. And that's just a great idea. You know? I mean, it's, it's just so natural and, yeah, and, and more palatable. I mean, like, let's just be honest. Like, you know, vermouth can be kind of overwhelming and if you want a delicate drink that you're going to you know, impose structure to then you know, you need to change some of the ingredients. And I think that being able to be versatile and breaking out those boxes are one of chip's really strong suits when it

Actually Joe: 36:19

comes to cocktail.

Joe: 36:19

The, the, the trick is to keep it. You know, not totally reinvent the will keep it within the same within that same general wheelhouse that somebody that is a habitual Manhattan drinker is still gonna enjoy it and enjoy it even more than well then

Also Joe: 36:33

tomorrow And vermouth are the same general thing anyway. It's just,

Actually Joe: 36:36

you know, elder maids and, yeah.

Tyler: 36:38

Something else I wanna point out too. So I'm looking at the menu right now, and the way that it's structured is fantastic in my opinion, because if my wife were to come here, that's the, that's the thing. And when I bring her to a new place, I want to experience that. It's more upscale. She never knows what to choose. Mm-hmm. So the way that it's structured here, I'm just gonna read it off. The headlines are gonna say, fresh and fruity, bitter and Herbal Molden bold and smokey. Nice and spicy digestive in coffee and NA and np. And so what's fantastic about that is you can, most people typically know what their pallet leans towards for the most part. You go, you find where your pallet lies and you choose a you got a cocktail playground right there. Yeah, yeah. That, that fits right to it. That's perfect.

Joe: 37:26

I think, I think people are more likely to come outta their comfort zone too, with the menu structured that way, you know, whereas they absolutely just, oh, I don't ever want to try a gin drink. But then, you know, that falls in into their, you know

Also Joe: 37:37

and that was really practical too, that, that my wife is the one that wanted to kind of push for that structure. And it was really just because so much trial and error in cocktail menus. Yeah. You know, and, and so much information's gathered. I mean, the glasses on the side I think are another important element of that menu, because, She's gonna, she's gonna want to drink something in a coup, but it also tells you what's there. If you've got a 4.5 ounce coup, then it's gonna be all spirits. You know, it's gonna be a, a bigger

Actually Joe: 38:03

drink from like

Also Joe: 38:04

a, a, a Liquor Ford perspective than if you have a Collins class and you can kind of get, I mean, the average cocktail drinker can get a lot of information from them. Yeah. So if you're doing something and you see that coop and you do not like lots of alcohol, you're gonna be like not getting that one. I mean, but it's just so clear. Yeah. It gives,

Joe: 38:19

gives you a lot more direction and for people that aren't cocktail people as well, you know it makes sense. Isn't a big glass, there's some fruit in here that makes, makes it easier. You know, that's less intimidating, I think. Yeah. You

Tyler: 38:29

bring a good point too with the types of glasses on the side of it as well too. I went to another bar and I ordered one of the drinks, like one of their specialty drinks or whatever, and she pulls out a flute glass and she was like, is it okay if I put this whiskey in this flute? That's the way that it comes It was like, that's weird. But I mean, I just do whatever, do whatever you need to do. I don't care. But it's good to know, like, okay. For Chris and I at least, and people that know least a little bit more about cocktails. Like, oh, okay, so this is how it's built. Mm-hmm. because that, that's really how, like these glasses are kind of made, is kind of how it's built, what, what's inside of it. So that helps a lot

Also Joe: 39:06

that way too. Yeah. And we did a lot of just general surveys with like our friends and random people. It's like, read the strength, do you know what, you know, Benedictine is? They're like,

Actually Joe: 39:17

Nope. Does

Also Joe: 39:17

this make sense? Do you know what any of these mean? They're like, not really. It's like, all right, now read these in categories. Like, do you now know what appall tastes like? They're like, oh yeah. So that's gonna be, yeah. So I mean, it, it is just really meant to be informative and approachable. So you know, I think menu design is a really important component of that. I'm really happy with our menu and this is the first time we've done a menu like that. I think that we've done something similar, but I think that this kind of with, with like

39:41

a

Joe: 39:42

whole new level of approachability for Yeah. With the general like, you know, what pallet you're going for. We've never done one like that. Right. Yeah.

Also Joe: 39:48

I wish more places did that. Yeah. Cuz I mean, you gotta be user friendly. And I, I've definitely been in the position a million times in my life where I don't know what something is and I don't want to ask Yeah, exactly. I don't want to. Yeah. You know, but if I had gone into those bars and like seen you know, 15 years ago that it was an a coop class, I would've known that I did not want that coop class at that point in my life. Yeah. Right.

Chris: 40:09

And I think it's very helpful because as most people know, if you go into a bar or you go someplace and they give you a menu, it's just like,

Also Joe: 40:18

oh. I'm like, great. I'm like, I don't know. Well, this

Chris: 40:21

sounds good. Does good. Yeah. And I, and I feel like this makes it approachable for everybody. Mm-hmm. if you want to shift from the bar scene and wanna move to more of a cocktail scene where someone's actually giving you something that's curated and not just like spilled alcohol and spirits all over the. This is a good place to start. Okay. Because it can take you from, oh, hey, I'm used to drinking, you know, crown and coke or something like really fruity, like a four horse. No, obviously not a four horse, four Horseman,

Also Joe: 40:56

like a Royal Flush or like a My wife a Horseman. And I've actually had quite a few of those. You know what one of the first like drinks that, it was like an ironic drink, but we were drinking golden turkeys. Like me, chip and my wife were at the bar Churchills, this is 12 years ago, 11 years ago. And it was a Thanksgiving and we started making gold slager mixed with wild turkeys. And it's kind of become a tradition for me. It's like the worst thing you could possibly have. But like last year, my wife was like surprised and I was like, oh God. Yeah, we do,

Joe: 41:26

we're still doing this

Also Joe: 41:27

but at least it's not a four horseman. Yeah. You up in the world.

Joe: 41:32

But yeah, I, I, in regards to what you were saying, I think it does help people that don't really know what they're looking for, discover what. What they want in a

Also Joe: 41:40

cocktail. Yeah. Well, and that kind of alludes to like a bigger theme. Like, you know, there's no elitism when it comes to this stuff. You know, this is, this is really about, like, everyone should try everything. I mean, it, it, it, it's a rich world of, of experiences and choices and like, really, you, you just should try everything in the world. Like you should eat everything that you come across and you should drink lots of stuff. And, you know, a lot of cocktail bars and fine dining restaurants have, have made themselves only available to a certain clientele for whatever reason. And it just doesn't make sense from a fundamental perspective or a business perspective or anything. So anything that we can do to make things more approachable,

Joe: 42:17

that's, that's, yeah. That's been one of our goals for across the board at all the places make, you know, take the pretension out of it. And just because you know, you're serving an elevated product doesn't mean that you have to you have to have, act like

Actually Joe: 42:27

you are Yeah. like, we don't have any secrets to anything. Like, I mean, we're, we're just doing stuff and being playful and, you know, making it approachable. You know, rum Cow is a good example of that. Like, you know, we. We're a casual dining restaurant. Yeah. We don't own Rum Cow anymore. We sold on Rum Cow in August. But you know,

Also Joe: 42:42

the idea was just to

Actually Joe: 42:43

introduce everything, you know, we did classical French cooking to you know, a hundred year old Oaxacan recipes to, I mean, just all over the place, whatever Asian. Yeah, it, yeah, we did Southern Hybrid Asian food. Cause I love Asian food and I just got back from China and you know, we, we just wanted to be playful and go all out. Same, and, and spare

Also Joe: 43:01

no expense

Actually Joe: 43:02

or methodology. Like I would, same goes here.

Joe: 43:04

If we feel like doing it, we're gonna do it.

Tyler: 43:05

Yeah, that's great. So, for you all too, how do you mix the business aspect with the artistry aspect of it?

Also Joe: 43:12

I mean, it's super gratifying. You just gotta continue to push the

Actually Joe: 43:15

boundaries. So like, I, I think that I speak for all three of us, my wife included. We, we just constantly look at everything, you know, and when you see something cool, you just wanna make it, and then you start thinking outside the box and trying to figure out what we can do. You know, you're, you're making little things a lot. that add a big thing to it, like atomizing, you know, tinctures and stuff. It's,

Joe: 43:37

it's a lot more work than obviously, you know, a shot in a beer bar course. But it's also a lot, a lot more rewarding and and people appreciate it a lot more. Yeah. You know, and another aspect of that is, you know, you gotta a lot of cocktail bars and you are paying for the prep. You are paying for the presentation, you're paying for the work that goes into the cocktail. We we pretty much try to keep our prices, you know, if you look at that menu mm-hmm. You know, you're asking how the artistry mixes with the business end of it. We're not gonna charge you an extra$3 just cuz we can No. Right. You know, as long as we

Actually Joe: 44:06

the same price as Applebee's,

Joe: 44:08

Yeah. Pretty much. You know, and as long as you know, as long as we're we're can make our margin on it, then no, we're not gonna add, you know, Just added no what ethereal cost. That doesn't

Actually Joe: 44:20

really, yeah, it's kind of, you know, and, and I'm not, I mean, it's a little pretentious when you do that. Yeah, it is. I mean, thinking that you can make something that has a baseline price, but charge four more bucks for it. Like, I, yeah, just, I don't like, it just, we're so fancy, you know, that you drink that's got maker's marking it. Like, it just, it it's too much for me. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it's it's just fun, you know? And the reason we do it is for the fun of it. And I think that that's the reason that anyone should do anything. I think it should all be fun, you know, and developing new stuff is, is really just looking in a very, very big world. And you know, drawing on previous experience in culinary experience and you know, really making a merger there. I think we started doing that with Rum Cal a lot and mixing the kitchen and the cocktails together. But we were really doing a rumbar there. This is kind of a grander exploration of the the two intersections.

Tyler: 45:07

Not to put you on the spot with this question just because it's

Also Joe: 45:11

more I'm

Actually Joe: 45:12

comfortable being on the spot,

Tyler: 45:14

So, out of all of the places that you've started and developed, what was your favorite to develop

Actually Joe: 45:19

and why? You

Also Joe: 45:20

know,

Actually Joe: 45:21

Building is a big part of it for, for both me and Chip. I, yeah. I think exploring the space creatively and from a construction hands-on perspective makes each one of them super unique and kind of like children, you know, mm-hmm. when you look at any of the places that you guys are familiar with we built every stitch of all of those places, so, wow. It's a lot more

Also Joe: 45:43

personal than that. And they're

Actually Joe: 45:44

also distinct that it's kind of accomplishing individual goals. So when we built a place like this, you know, we had a style and we wanted to achieve this style. We wanted to have a particular look, a particular feel. So the development kind of went hand in hand with it and it creates something that's like a freestanding concept. So, yeah. It, it's hard to pick a favorite because they're, they're, they're, they're distinct. They're just individual entities and they, it's very

Joe: 46:07

true. I, I will say just as far as like the stress level and fun level of buildout, this one was my favorite. Oh, yeah. Because, you know, we didn't have other businesses going on. We, I wasn't working three jobs while we were building it. Joe wasn't running a bar and coming

Also Joe: 46:21

down, you know? Yeah. And we kind of made

Actually Joe: 46:23

it in a certain sense where it's less,

Joe: 46:25

we, we, we had less time constraints. We had less money constraints and and just less stress in general. Yeah. You know, if you're trying to run one business or two while you're building another one, it's, it's overwhelming at times. Sure. Whereas, you know, we're a couple guys down here cutting up, having fun and building stuff and talking about what we're gonna do with the menu, then it, it, you know, again, takes it back to just being more fun.

Actually Joe: 46:46

Yeah.

Chris: 46:47

Talking about fun. Is it actually, let's talk about fun. No. So is it fun? Wait, do you guys actually have a kitchen back there?

Also Joe: 46:55

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we're doing charcuterie. Okay.

Actually Joe: 46:58

Oh,

Also Joe: 46:59

okay.

Chris: 46:59

Well, because you, you mentioned like coming up, is it, did you make bitters? Oh yeah. The

Also Joe: 47:04

Manhattan. Yes. I'm like, we've made like four different kinds of bitters.

Actually Joe: 47:08

There's one that's on the menu now, but we got more that are coming. Yeah.

Joe: 47:11

I'm gonna do some tinctures and we do the atomized tinctures shrubs. Yeah. And I think syrups, I think we've got seven or

Actually Joe: 47:17

eight different, I think we always wanna go for base production, right? So like, I mean, you, you ask kind of what drives it creative creatively, you know things like bitters, like that's one of the first things that came to our minds, really. It's like, you know, we've been buying Angus forever, forever,

Also Joe: 47:30

everybody.

Actually Joe: 47:32

And, and, but you don't have to still there. Still. Still.

Also Joe: 47:34

There's no reason to. Yeah.

Joe: 47:35

But I mean, we still use Ang. We still use'em. Yeah, sure. Yeah. You know, we've probably got 12 different bidders up there, but being able to customize. A specific bitter to a specific drink as opposed to buying it off

Also Joe: 47:45

the shelf. Right. Yeah. And it's that level of customization, but you also get

Actually Joe: 47:48

more reward with it. So is it more work? Yeah. But you know, you kind of get bragging rights, right? I mean, you get kind of like a bigger payoff in the end because like it's it's, it's finally crafted to, to what you're doing. Well,

Joe: 47:58

and, and a lot of our cocktails are proprietary on, on a number of levels, you know? Right. It's not just the fat washed mm-hmm. or just the bitter just how, or the bitters, or just how we're smoking or what house made syrup or shrubs going into it. It's three or four of those things, and a lot of in a lot of our menu. Oh, yeah. You know, so it's, it kind of takes this is a cocktail that you really can't get anywhere else to the next

Actually Joe: 48:18

level. Well, and you gotta, you gotta

Also Joe: 48:20

understand what you're doing

Actually Joe: 48:20

too. So I. why do you make bitters? You make bitters so that you understand what Bitters is and, and how it can taste and what can be different and kind of what it is. And the more

Joe: 48:30

we play with it, the more, yeah, we've been doing this a long time, but the more we play with it, the more we

Also Joe: 48:34

understand. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's

Actually Joe: 48:35

like tinctures. I mean, like tinctures are, are bitters, you know? Amaro is a bitter vermouth is a bitter, like they're all in the same spectrum. So, you know, kind of cracking open the nut and, and starting with a tincture. A tincture is a single spiced bitter. So, you know, making, making stuff and, and feeling it out. Like we, we have three tinctures that we're running right now. If I combine those and I, I've got a bitter, you know? Yeah. It, it's cool to play with stuff. Then when you understand it, it's kind of base level, then it, it makes it. more usable when you're approaching cocktails or a menu build or something along those lines.

Tyler: 49:06

Mm-hmm. something I, I'm, I'm sure noticed that Chris has noticed this as well too, but the best way that it was described to me is that bitters and tinctures is almost the same way that spices are used in food. Yes. Mm-hmm. And so that really opened my mind to it and how different cocktails can taste or the same cocktail rather can taste so different just based on how the same type of bitter was made. Mm-hmm. and that, that was mind blowing. And just by drinking this Manhattan too, it kind of speaks to that as well. So that, that's just really neat. And anything else that you should probably add to my very rustic

Actually Joe: 49:43

way? No, no, no. I think that's great and like from a culinary perspective, like I mean I cooked for 20 years and I did all the fine dining you could imagine and loved it. And there was like 10 years that. I just wanted to be as complicated as possible. I just wanted I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna just, because I can, I'm gonna put it on bu I mean, it was just like this race to be the coolest or the smartest or something. I don't, I don't know what it was. URIs, I guess. And then at some point I was like, thinking back to like the first thing I ever cooked on my own. Like I think I was, you know, 10 or 11. And I had those those Omaha steaks that are like pre-packaged. Oh yeah. Like, I was like, oh, I wanna make a steak, and like, I don't know how to cook. And I turned the the oven onto Broil and put it at 500 not knowing what I was doing. and sprinkled some rock garlic salt over it. And like, I, I ate that steak. And it was the first time that I had like a, A multi-component stake that had been broiled and it was just like a, an atom bomb for me. It was like, oh my God. And then, you know, somewhere in my culinary career right into like the rum cal stage of it, I guess I was like, man, I gotta return to simple. Like, sometimes simple is better, you know, sometimes, you know, this complicated stuff is, is masking the flavors of things. And, and sometimes sometimes things can be enjoyed if they're just higher quality with simpler ingredients. And you know, that's kind of, you know, the age cycle I guess. I mean, I'm 40 now, so, and I'm a dad and I love being a dad, and a lot of things are just kind of reverting back and yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I totally agree with you. I

Also Joe: 51:07

mean

Actually Joe: 51:07

it's both worlds, you know, that's why we use tanks and bitters, a tincture you know, that's atomized gives you a blast of clove and the aromatics kind of you know, round out the portfolio of a. Vermouth or a tomorrow and a drink. And you know, it's just, it's nice to add a simple touch. And then the complexity of like well refined bitters, like our double black bitters that you were talking about it, it defines the drink. So yeah, we, we have both worlds kind of intersection, but I, I certainly think that we would rely on a culinary background to kind of make those kind of judgements. And

Tyler: 51:37

I'm gonna steal one of Chris's questions, so he's, we'll probably still mind. Did you guys

Also Joe: 51:40

prepare questions? We only have 2 0

Actually Joe: 51:42

2 That's the, that's the only way that this works. Say that's awesome.

Tyler: 51:47

We're not that organized but Chris's typical question, which is today is mine, is, so how would you define success?

Joe: 51:56

For me being happy doing what you're doing and having enough time. Really, it's all about time. Yeah. You know, having enough time to live your life and still do what you gotta do and not hate every minute of being at your job Right. Because I've had a lot of jobs that I hated every minute of,

Actually Joe: 52:13

I'll tell you what, man, you know, 10 years ago I think we both would've had a different answer. Yeah, for sure. it's like an evolution, you know? And I don't know. I think that Chip nailed it. It's just in search of lost time, man. That's what it's all boils down to. I mean, having, having a kid, having a three year old chip's got a seven year old. Yeah. You know, that's what you see more and more. You know, I thought success in my twenties, like I pushed hard man. Like I've, I've been tenacious my whole life. I want to open places, I want to own my own spot. I want to open more. I want to, you know, conquer

Joe: 52:41

this money and whiskey probably would've been my 25 year old answer. right?

Actually Joe: 52:46

Yeah. But, you know, it's, it is, it's so rare that I think about any of that stuff anymore. You know? It, it, it's just time. Yeah. Right. Being able to introduce my daughter to a good way of life and, and have like a good dimension. I still have to make money to provide for my family, but I, we can,

Joe: 53:03

if we can make money to provide for our families and still have enough time to spend with our family, and I think we're winning. I

Actually Joe: 53:09

think being a good dad and husband would define success in my mind. Yeah, I like that.

Also Joe: 53:14

Yeah, that's perfect.

Chris: 53:15

Because he always likes to go super deep. And then I go super funny a dual part question. Nothing actually deep, it's just kind of silly. What is your favorite drink on your menu for both of you guys? And then what is your sing? Favorite single spirit?

Also Joe: 53:29

I'm gonna go for that. Manhattan

Actually Joe: 53:31

Clandestino. I, I, I think it's just a full range. I, I love it. Did, did you drink the Manhattan? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's just a lot. And I don't know. I, I think it's super dynamic. My, my single favorite spirit if I, if, if I didn't

Also Joe: 53:43

think about money

Actually Joe: 53:45

or like when I was gonna drink it or something along those lines, I'd go for a high Highmark likable. And I think that you can't beat it just from like a depth and you know you know, complexity perspective. I think that that's probably my favorite scotch right now.

Joe: 53:57

So I love the Manhattan Cland Tino also, but one of the ones I'm most proud of on that menu, and I've mentioned it a couple times in interviews before we opened, is the not your tie, which is a spice Tiki drink and it's it's got a coconut washed a drum. Hmm. Which gives us a really delicate kind of coconut flavor, but then it's also got a pineapple habanero de. This is sweetening Asian and that bad boy. So, and it's kind of a play on a, my tie. Yeah. It's, it's rather boozy, but you get a lot of crisp citrus notes on the front. You get some sweetness in the middle, you get some spice on the end, and then it just kind of resets by the time you take another sip of it. I've, I've tried over the years to like, perfect several spice Tiki drinks. That's just something I'm, I'm 100% a whiskey guy more than I am anything else, but just the idea of like, okay, I want something you can drink on the beach, but it's still spicy, you know, it's just, it's a challenge, you know, and I feel like we really nailed it with that one. So I'd say that's probably my,

Also Joe: 54:49

my wife has been drinking those out in the

Actually Joe: 54:50

house

Also Joe: 54:50

too, so she might hope that that sounds

Tyler: 54:53

a lot

Joe: 54:53

too. Yeah. It's just a really complex drink, but it all it all comes together, you know,

Actually Joe: 54:58

and that's the end of days room. Yeah. That's, that's gotta sell them. And he's. Doing a coconut fat washed on that guy, which is really nice. And especially when you put it against something like you know, like a flavored spirit. I don't think we have any flavored spirits here. I, I think that we're gonna do something like that. We're going to well exactly.

Joe: 55:14

Accuse the flavor ourselves. Yeah. We're not, yeah, you're not gonna get any kind of syrup. Sweet coconut rum here. Yeah,

Tyler: 55:21

that sounds good. I'm gonna have to try that one too.

Joe: 55:22

And I'm a, I'm a bourbon man. Okay. Three And through. If I can get a bottle of BLANs, I'm a happy

Actually Joe: 55:27

guy. Yeah. I've seen this guy with many a bottle of maker's. Mark them. Yeah. Yeah. True, true.

Joe: 55:32

I

Also Joe: 55:33

like that. It's interesting and all the mics and wires like, can you hear me? Yes. I keep on thinking of like a doctor's office. I don't know why, but like, the feeling is similar. Like it's, it's mildly intrusive, but it's like, it's not them, you know, that it's gonna be okay, but like, there's stuff pointing at me

Actually Joe: 55:47

and there's wires everywhere. How does this work? What's going right? This is just a checkup. Nothing's gonna happen today, but right there is this feeling

Tyler: 55:55

down, down in the future. You never know what might happen. So

Chris: 55:58

Yeah, it's always interesting cuz we're, we're only a year, so we're, we've tried a bunch of different things. Our original setup was me and Tyler with these little mics on a like six inch stand. Oh, like

Also Joe: 56:10

the Bob Barker on mics? Yeah. Yes, that

Chris: 56:13

sounds right. And. I'm not a short person, but trying to talk into them, leaning into the things. Tyler was like, I hate you so much, you're so quiet. I'm like, yes, I'm a quiet spoken person. You're like, well

Joe: 56:25

my back hurts cuz I'm like, Yeah. Lean into,

Chris: 56:27

And then we now have the, the recording studio. So it's kind of like a preset and we hide more of the cables and then we're on location. It's like, mm. I kind of can't hide. Oh yeah. Cables anywhere Yeah. But I think it's just kind of cool just to see the evolution and kind of see like the different locales and the setups. And before I say thank you guys for showing up and letting us in here my final question. What would you tell, if you could tell your younger self one thing, what would it be?

Joe: 56:55

Oh, wow. I don't know, a lot of, a lot of things that I'm not gonna say on a podcast,

Actually Joe: 57:03

for sure. I dunno, I'd say,

Also Joe: 57:07

Money

Actually Joe: 57:07

doesn't mean as much as you think. I think that's the best advice I could give my young self. Yeah.

Joe: 57:12

I, I would have to agree with you on

Actually Joe: 57:13

that. Well, anecdotal, but extremely true. I feel like I wasted a lot of my life in the pursuit of money.

Joe: 57:19

Yeah. Which I mean, you know, you gotta make, it's nice to have too, sir. Yeah. right? That's about to say. Yeah, I gotta agree with that. Yeah.

Tyler: 57:26

It, it's kind of been like, it's from just talking to you guys for the past little bit over, over, over an hour, just kind of the, the marriage of that. It's just like, you both know what the hustle looks like to create that money, but you also know what the freedom looks like on the end of that and knowing that it's not actually that the, making the money part of the hustle wasn't the part that made you happy. It was, but the freedom, the hustle that made. Yeah, exactly.

Actually Joe: 57:49

But yeah, I mean, and, and it's super, I mean, it's terrible to say stuff like that because, you know, we, we have enjoyed success and like, I, I don't know that I'd be saying that if I, I was

Joe: 57:58

about to say, if I was where I was, happened to, you know, take, I appreciate, take out a, if I was to take out a loan for groceries, then I probably wouldn't feel that way. I

Actually Joe: 58:06

appreciate the irony of the statement, but I still feel like I, I gave up a lot in the pursuit. Yeah. So I, I'd like it back. See.

Joe: 58:12

Well, and again, it comes back to time, you know? Yeah. Mm-hmm. all, all of the time chasing things that, you know, are, yeah. I mean, they're important in your day-to-day life, but they're not important to your overall happiness is Right. And you know, when you get older it's just, you can't get that time

Actually Joe: 58:26

back. Yeah. I think we all just wanna be kids again, man. Yeah. Really I'm watching. My three-year-old is just so sweet. We found an anthi earlier today and we fed the aunt's acorns for like an hour. Yeah. It's like this is so much fun. Like this is so much better.

Joe: 58:39

teach. Teaching my daughter how to ride her bicycle. It made me happier than anything I can remember in Yeah, my recent history. Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler: 58:47

I have a two and a half year old and a Oh, you do? A 10 month old. Oh, nice. So yeah, same thing too. Yeah. Just being able to spend time with, with my son and my daughter and just like the small thing like building Legos, it just like the small things, it's amazing. Like that is so much more than I can remember just.

Actually Joe: 59:03

I professional. I cry all the time now, man.

Tyler: 59:06

all, all the time. It's the crazy things that happened.

Actually Joe: 59:07

Tom as nuts. I'd never cry. It's like my three-year-old will randomly grab me and like kiss me on the forehead and like pat my head and say, I love you dad. It's

Joe: 59:15

just like Nellie called me. Just overwhelming or my, my wife Noelle called me at eight 30 last night, which is the kid's bedtime. This was the first night outside of the weekend that I hadn't been home to put her to bed. Mm-hmm. you know, I'd been home for dinner cuz we just opened back up. But yeah, she called me and I thought it was I thought it was my wife on the phone. She put the kid on and she just wanted to tell me she loved me and good night and yeah, I just about started crying. It's great. It was, it was a hit you anywhere? It was a near thing. I had to really? Yeah.

Actually Joe: 59:43

Yeah, It's wild, man. It's a wild world and it, it just comes around full circle. And then, you know, we're 40 now, so I mean, at some point I just became the older guy, right? Yeah. You, you,

Joe: 59:53

you blink and you're the old

Actually Joe: 59:54

guy in the room, you know, it's like I bought part of melty pot when I was 21 years old, just straight up sweat equity the old school way. And everyone's like, oh my God, you're the youngest guy to ever own a fine dining restaurant. And I was like, oh my God, I am. This is so cool. No one says that I need more than

Also Joe: 1:00:08

Like, oh, you one of the owners. I'm like,

Actually Joe: 1:00:10

oh, damn. Not the young guy doing

Also Joe: 1:00:12

anymore. Just the

Joe: 1:00:13

guy doing. Yeah. Yeah. You're no kind of phenom. You're just the dude.

Chris: 1:00:17

I feel like that was me when I got into the jewelry business. You're, I was like, oh yeah, I'm the young person. So young. And then now I'm, I've been there long enough, I'm like, oh,

Also Joe: 1:00:26

this is just what I do now.

Chris: 1:00:27

Yeah. The young kids come in, they're like, oh, hey, you're old. And. Mm. That's that. Great. They still have like 30 years on me, so I'm not really old, but I,

Also Joe: 1:00:37

I, I guess I am. But it's weird not being the youngest, I mean, to, to be

Actually Joe: 1:00:41

appreciated for the novelty of it. When people

Joe: 1:00:43

started calling me sir, I was just like, oh no, it

Actually Joe: 1:00:47

comes from all of us. This

Also Joe: 1:00:48

happens. Mm-hmm. It

Chris: 1:00:50

just, it's a point in life. So fellas, is there a spot that anyone can find you guys on social media or like follow you? Like the

Also Joe: 1:00:57

progression

Actually Joe: 1:00:58

of the business? And I'm gonna have to look at it on my phone cause I don't, I

Joe: 1:01:01

don't I believe it's under front ILM on Instagram and

Chris: 1:01:05

Facebook. Okay. I feel like I was looking at something the other day and I'm like, Ooh, these guys are opening up. That's how I found, I do know. I know. It's under

Joe: 1:01:11

front

Actually Joe: 1:01:12

Wilmington is what I, I know our email address now. Oh, did you find it Yeah, I did under front ilm. I found that one. Ellen. Under

Joe: 1:01:18

front Wilmington is the Instagram and the Facebook.

Actually Joe: 1:01:20

My wife is substantially better with the social

Also Joe: 1:01:23

medium. Don't worry.

Joe: 1:01:25

Yeah, we, we have no idea what

Tyler: 1:01:26

we're doing. Well, we will tag you in the show notes and we'll, we'll put you all over our I Instagram. Cool. Thank you kindly. Thank you. We'll be there. Yeah. And I know we talked about this before, but maybe our social media and your social media might find a a short video if you guys teaching us

Actually Joe: 1:01:40

how to make a cocktail. Oh, yeah. That'll be awesome. Yeah, we'll definitely work that

Also Joe: 1:01:43

out. We'll get you behind the bar. Have you guys been behind a bar before? Have you ever been bartenders or, well, not bartenders. Oh,

Tyler: 1:01:49

bartenders. No, no. as content creators, we have been behind the bar of a couple bars showing people how to make cocktails or other people showing us how to make cocktails. I'd rather say, but we definitely wanted you to be one of the first ones to show us

Also Joe: 1:02:00

too. Oh yeah. That'd be awesome. Yeah, we made that happen for sure. And it feels good back there, man. There's, there's something super special about, I mean, you're, you, you're,

Actually Joe: 1:02:09

you're almost on, on a show. I mean, like 24 hours a day. Like, you're back there and like you're the guy inside the bar. Like, I always love the feeling of being kind of on stage. Well, and these,

Joe: 1:02:17

You know, super intricate cocktails, you know, that have five, six ingredients and you know, you're smoking'em and You know, you're doing the flamed orange pills and you're doing all the crazy garnishes and whatnot. You know, you, you'll look up and everybody's looking at you you know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're putting on the show whether you realize it or not. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Actually Joe: 1:02:33

for sure. Yeah. I remember Chip back in the day, this is in Churchills days, and this is not a, a very good cocktail reference, but I looked over at some point, we had 500 person people in the club at the time, and we had half gallons of l i t fixings, and I look over and I see Chip holding four half gallons with nine glasses in front of him, just pouring nine lits at one time with two hands, We made a lot OFTs, half gallons, not, not fifths, half gallons. He's got like 17 pounds worth of liquor. Just

Joe: 1:03:02

my, my hands were strong in those

Also Joe: 1:03:03

days. Yeah.

Actually Joe: 1:03:04

It was amazing. And, and like, you just you know, and that, that's one of those things like this, this business is like so intense. There's a lot of like points that you're just. You know, you, you just gotta breathe in, keep working. Like this is a hustle business. And when you're busy, like we did 600 people on Friday and Wow. And

Joe: 1:03:21

it was our, it was our first, you know, fully open kni. When you're, when you're going at that, everybody still learn on the list. It's just like Exactly. Oh, okay.

Also Joe: 1:03:28

Yeah. But you just

Actually Joe: 1:03:29

do it and like, it's like a, you know, it, it's just a Spartan exercise, man. Yeah. Like, it's like a, you, you get in there and there's nothing that feels like it, you know, it's just a, this intense kind of performance. Mm-hmm. it's

Chris: 1:03:40

always been the, the kind of joke is I know plenty of bartenders and I'm like, oh, I could make that drink. And they're like, but could you

Also Joe: 1:03:49

now? Could you make

Actually Joe: 1:03:50

that drink with 40 other drinks? Yeah. In 15 minutes. Exactly. Yeah. That becomes

Joe: 1:03:55

the question with six people, you know, deep at the bar, you know, yelling and

Actually Joe: 1:04:00

have a large, then the time flies. Like, it's, it's the kind of job that like, it does go quick, which is a cool thing. Like, I like jobs that, like you start and then it's over. Yeah.

Joe: 1:04:09

You, you look up at one o'clock in the morning. Yeah.

Actually Joe: 1:04:11

Yeah. Very cool. But yeah.

Chris: 1:04:14

I just want to shout everyone under front Co Barn Lounge is downtown Wilmington, right next to the Waffle House. So for some reason you order a drink that is very boozy and you didn't realize it cuz you can't understand pictures. You can walk over to Waffle House, get something, some hash browns.

Joe: 1:04:31

Yeah, soak all stars up.

Chris: 1:04:33

But yeah, thank you guys for listening. We are on all of your podcast setups. Apple, Spotify, all the big boys. Leave us a review, five stars, preferably, and come back for next week. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you so much. Much

Also Joe: 1:04:46

fun. Yeah. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.