Want to Live a Healthier Life? - Sara Auld (Upper Health)

This Weeks Guest: Sara Auld - Founder of Upper Health

Discussion: This week Sara talks to us about living a healthier lifestyle, with the importance of wellness. How her company can help connect you to the right places to live that healthier lifestyle. And the struggles that entrepreneurs face. 

What we were sippin' on: Old Forrester Bottled-in-Bond

How to Find Sara
IG: @upper.health
Web: upper.health

Transcript

Chris: 0:31

Hey everybody, welcome back. It's your constant co-host Chris Kellen, and. My troublemaker over here,

Tyler: 0:38

Tyler, y'all,

Chris: 0:39

every day this week we have on Sarah Al. See, I couldn't pronounce your last

Sara: 0:45

name. Oh, ald. Just think the word Al with a D on the end. Okay.

Tyler: 0:49

Easy

Chris: 0:49

enough. I, I read names and I'm like, mm. I'm, I'm gonna ruin that. It's okay. And you know, as per usual, she'll tell us a little bit about herself, cuz I know nothing besides that. You own a business. Yeah.

Sara: 1:05

That's okay. Yeah,

Chris: 1:06

I'm excited about that. But this week we are mixing it up. Sarah is not a whiskey drinker, so she is testing out our hauler head. Not

Sara: 1:14

often right? Not often. But in college, the the whiskey coke was a good go-to. Oh yes.

Chris: 1:21

Yeah. I was thinking about that the other day. I was like, man, I should bring on some like crown or something. Bring it back to the old days. Yes. But Tyler and I are adding to our pallet. The old Forester bottled in bond. Just a little different. I found it at the Starling a while back and I was like, you know, it looks good. Let's try it. It's supposed to be, have some vanilla taste as well as some coffee notes. And then it was matured in oak barrels. Mm-hmm. And then has a chill kind of finish. It

Sara: 1:50

sounds really good. And I might have to try it before I leave today because every time, every time I get coffee, I get a vanilla latte if it's out somewhere. Yeah. So we could deal with that on target.

Chris: 2:00

Yeah. Let's taste it. See what you think.

Tyler: 2:03

Have a vanilla cappuccino here too. So we'll see how that

Sara: 2:06

goes. Cheers, miss. Cheers. Cheers. And I have my thank you Plantain. I have the Hower head. Banana flavored whiskey. Oh,

Tyler: 2:12

it does have a strong vanilla taste to it. Not bad.

Sara: 2:15

Is that a positive?

Tyler: 2:17

Yes. That is a positive. Okay. You get the coffee on the back end, or at least I do anyway. I get vanilla first and then I get coffee. Well, you don't like coffee, so

Sara: 2:26

Oh, that's, that's hard.

Chris: 2:28

No, it's, it goes back and forth. Everyone's like, oh, do you want coffee at work? I'm like, I mean, can I get a apple caramel? Apple spice? That's

Sara: 2:36

tea. Oh my God. That's hilarious. I

Chris: 2:39

have no worst. Now that we've tried a little whiskey, Sarah, tell us a little about

Sara: 2:43

yourself. Yeah. So my name is Sarah Al. I was born and raised in a very small town called Windsor in upstate New York. I moved to Wilmington in 2015, became a personal trainer. Hmm. While I was a personal trainer, I opened my first company, which is a nonprofit, and we would raise money to help people afford fitness, and then I grew into nutrition. Okay. Mental health care. Yeah. So we were essentially subsidizing the cost of wellness for people. And then in 2021, I opened my second company, which is upper. Okay. Mm-hmm. And so upper is really this kind of graduation of health possible where it focuses on the accessibility of the wellness industry. And so we do that by building software and online marketplace that connects people to the, to the most effective care based on their needs. And what we're building on the backend is referral software, essentially. So we're getting trainers, for example, to be able to send a referral to a dietician in the most basic form. Okay. Yep. That's its most basic form.

Chris: 3:42

I was like, I never knew

Tyler: 3:43

that. That's very interesting. So what kind of got you started and involved in upper and made you

Sara: 3:49

wanna start it? That's a, okay. That's a great question. And this will be the first, most legit story of the day, if you're ready for it. Yes, I'm definitely ready for it. Okay. So I had health possible my nonprofit since 2017. Okay. Okay. And so as the years went on, like I mentioned, we started with fitness and then slowly grew into the other industries like nutrition, mental health and so forth. And so that was a very manual process for years. And we actually ended up developing financial technology over there. Mm. So it started really back then because if somebody couldn't afford wellness, we needed to wait to one, verify that they couldn't afford it. But then also, two, we were out negotiating rates with providers Right. As a company to get, you know, of course the most affordable thing for the non-profit and the person. Yeah. And so we did that for probably four or so years, and then, and we were doing it all on Microsoft Excel. Okay. Meaning that, meaning that in order to prove somebody couldn't afford things, we had built a calculator that according to somebody's income we would be willing to financially aid so much. Okay, so we'd plug in their income, it would spit out the financial aid amount. We had this array of providers that we had been negotiating care rates with. to match people up. And then within about four years I looked at the team and I said, guys, you know, we can really scale and reach a lot more people if we weren't actually funding the care itself. Mm-hmm. like if we weren't actually paying for it and we don't need to. What if we used this kind of income calculator, right? Where when somebody submitted their income, instead of saying, Hey, you know, you qualify for 50% in financial aid, now all of a sudden you qualify for 50% off. Mm. Okay. Which is the same thing. Yeah. Right? It's the same thing cuz the providers were already lowering their rates for us. Right. So we were doing that for a few months and then ran into an obstacle learned, you know, in a charity you can never actually charge the client. Mm-hmm. that you're helping for the care. The money must move in a way that it moves from the donor through the organization to a totally different person. Right. You can't actually say, Hey person, you're helping. Even if we're doing this, that's significantly less. or we're bridging a gap or connecting dots, we can't actually charge them for anything. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. So it was an obstacle we ran into, and so we couldn't keep using it as a discount software. Okay. Okay. And, and we did automate it. So just to give the short of that, we did take our, our Microsoft Excel stuff and put it in software Yeah. But so we couldn't do that. So we went back to financially aiding and subsidizing the way we were. And then in 2021, this is the coolest, this is one of the coolest things that ever happened in my entire life. I got a LinkedIn friend request from this super entrepreneur named Matt STRs. Mm-hmm. and Matt had opened three companies at the time already. He, his first company was acquired by aol. His second company was in the insurance benefits brokerage space. Mm-hmm. And it was valued over 500 million. At the time that he left it. And then his third one was another InsureTech kind of benefits brokerage company. And that was worth, I believe, tens of millions within a couple years as well. Wow. So he adds me on LinkedIn, and I'm like, oh my gosh, what is this guy cover? Forbes entrepreneur, business Insider. I obviously looked him up. Yeah. Right. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what is this guy could take us for everything we were worth? Like he's super interesting and has all the success. And he actually did message me and ask for a meeting. Oh, wow. Which is why I was thinking all those things too. Yeah. And so I told the team, Hey, I'm gonna meet with this super entrepreneur and I'm only gonna tell him as much as a client could figure out. Yeah. Because he's also in, you know, kind of the health space. Right. And so I go into my first meeting with him, we're about 30 minutes into it. And he said to me, would you ever consider transitioning health possible to a for-profit? Hmm. Which was really funny because when I first opened Health Possible, I was coming up with it when I was about 22. Mm-hmm. Opened it when I was 23. I didn't know anything about non-profits at all. Yeah. And I tried to open it as a for-profit. Naturally. I was just trying to open a business that helped these people. Yeah. Right. And so I wrote dozens of plans back then, trying to do it that way. Couldn't figure it out, couldn't make it work. Turned out it needed to be a non-profit at the time. So he said that, and I said, you know, that's an interesting question. Everybody asks me that hospital executives, you know, major business executives, donors, like all kinds of people, ask me that question. And I never asked why, why are you asking me that? And he said, well, and he said, just like this. Well, you seem like a smart person doing some really great things. And I know a lot of people looking to invest in smart people doing really great things. So I'd like for you to consider the transition. I'd like for you to call me back. Wow. And I was like, holy, that's amazing. Smoke And I didn't even understand the magnitude of it. Yeah. You know, at the time, and we were already dealing with all these little problems at health possible, like it was hard to scale. We wanted to reach millions of people. Even wealthy people were reaching out to us, the Upperclass nursing, Hey, how can I get help from you? Oh, yeah. But they weren't even looking for the financial help. They mm-hmm. They're looking for the, the guidance and navigation and just, yeah. They just wanted to understand what was effective for them. And so, knowing all of that, you know, I hang up that call and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is my chance. I have to figure this out. You know? And so I essentially locked myself in my kitchen, in my dining room, which is my home office. Yeah. For like the next 48 hours. I got outta whiteboard. I just gutted the whole company and I was like, I have to figure this out. And so I was never going to transition it and, and change the nonprofit structure. Cause it, it does a really niche thing, right. And it does a really special job, right? Mm-hmm. like, it raises money and pays for care for someone who might. not have the funds at any point in time. Mm-hmm. right. To get this Yeah, true. Right? Yeah. To get access to this or to afford this. And so I don't wanna change that. And plus the IRS mess that would come with that. I was not prepared for that either. Yeah. Yeah. Just the headache that that would've been and, and then changing it. All of our, like telling all of our donors and stopping donations. I'll just be crazy. Right? Yeah. So in the 48 hours, I thought, okay, well if we open, you know, a new company and it simply acquires the parts that need to scale mm-hmm. right? Which is really just the marketplace. We had built all these provider relationships that was private, nobody knew about it. It was closed off from the public, kind of behind a wall, right? In the software. Yeah. Only for people qual qualified. And then if we bought that, you know, discount calculator, that wasn't legal, right? Mm-hmm. allowed to be used over there at the nonprofit. That could help a ton of people too. And so I went to my board of directors, I said, Hey, I'd like to do this. I'd like to open this new company. That just scales the providers, helps them grow their businesses and for, you know, as long as we can. But at the same time unleashes that discount calculator someday. Yeah. And, you know, all the while it's concierge wellness is what we call it today. Mm-hmm. helping people navigate. And I got the board's blessing. They're like, yes, go do that. That's awesome. I said, great, you know, of course we'll keep the nonprofit, you know, pay for care for these people. That won't continue to happen. Right. And then started the legal process. So that was a whole ordeal. I had to get attorney general approval from the state of North Carolina. Jeez. Yeah, it was crazy. It was not easy. No, it was not easy. It had to submit a ton of paperwork because a nonprofit has no owners. Mm-hmm. right. And so the state has to approve any kind of fi like big financial change like that, mergers, acquisitions, anything like that goes through the state. Oh, wow. Yeah. I didn't realize that. So I started this whole process and no matter what, when I went back to talk to Matt again, like this was the path forward and it really motivated me to finally figure this out and understand how we could grow. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and so I do, I do call Matt back, right? Yeah. I call him back and I said, Hey, ready to meet with you. I've got something to tell you. We get onto our second Zoom ever. We're probably 15 minutes into this call. And I said, Hey, I just wanted to give you an update like you asked for. And I had no idea what was coming, right? None. And I said I just wanna give you an update that I'm opening a new company. I'm gonna call it upper. Here's what it will do. I just wanted to let you know. Mm-hmm. And he goes, great. I'd like to be your first small investor at$25,000. That's incredible. And I was like, Oh my God. Thank you. Yeah. I'll stop the, the madness there. But that was really like the, the big catapult and the big push to getting to upper and what it is right now. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate that. It was a lot. It was a lot.

Chris: 12:08

That is so for the people like me who don't know a ton, like difference wise, what is, when you say for profit mm-hmm. what do you mean by that versus like a. Not-for-profit.

Sara: 12:22

Yeah. So part of the phone call I was on with him, you know, he did a great job of educating me on really the biggest differences between non-profits and for-profits. He even connected me with another entrepreneur that he had a relationship with just in the investment world and whatnot. And she had worked only in grants and non-profits for so long, and then she also moved to the for-profit sector. And essentially the biggest differences are just how local you wanna be versus how much you wanna scale. What does the financial capital look like to scale? Is your operation scalable without capital? Right. Is it something you can do without investors necessarily? Mm-hmm. there's a lot that went into it. And he was a very philanthropic person. And so he has his company, I believe his company, I could be wrong about this, but I believe his company is registered as a B Corp. Okay. I do know that he donates 1% of his company every year to charity in general. And so, and that's millions of dollars. Yeah. Yeah. You know and so that alone had me, you know, understanding that he knows what he's talking about, but also, you know, he really does care about scaling important emissions. Right. Whereas a for-profit, you know, it takes massive financial capital. to reach millions of people. It also depends how fast you wanna reach'em. Yeah. You know? But I didn't want what we were doing to stay local. I wanted it to be across the country. I wanted it to be really big. And so there's just a lot more ability to do that when you can raise that level of financial capital to go out and do that. Oh.

Tyler: 13:50

So with the more wealthy people that were reaching out that wanted those services, what kind of services c are you able to offer them now and how

Sara: 13:57

does that benefit them? Yeah. We call it concierge wellness. Okay. And so another phrase for that we use is personal health and wellness management service. Okay. Okay. That I've heard. Yeah. So think of, think of like a personal assistant. Yeah. Right. Or somebody who can just plan and do everything for you. Almost like, I don't wanna compare it to a travel agency, but it's essentially what it's Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for your lifestyle. And so those, that's a service that we provide where we say, Hey, look, here's the starting point. We know the roadmap. That is, you know, a good template for people in general. Like start with, you know, your environments and, and your habits. And then should you become ill, what are resources that are natural options for you if you don't want to just jump straight to the drugs or the surgeries or things like that. Right. And we have contact with all those people.

Tyler: 14:41

I think that's something important that we should touch on too. Yeah. So your company does primarily focus on the natural ways of wealth health. Hundred percent. Not the typical. Yeah. Like, okay. I, that's like thing, bring that up for everyone to know too. Yes. Because I, I follow, I've been following you on Instagram for a while and I was like, this is exactly like, I appreciate it my level. So that's another reason why I really wanted to bring you on is kind of breaking the mold of, all right, let's go to the doctor, get prescribed 15 drugs to get into their 15 drugs prescribed to you to overcome all of the side effects that

Sara: 15:10

those drugs get. So what you just explained is what I consider the health system, and I'll give a, I'll give a visual and I'll do it, especially knowing that the camera's here that can capture my visual. Okay. So when I tell people that upper is a health system for wellness mm-hmm. most people don't know what a health system is in general. Right. It's this massive collection of resources in an industry. Right. Of course. In our healthcare. Right. And it creates process. Okay. So it's, it's not a maze. It's not this mess of a place that you've gotta spend hours on Google, just searching like chiropractors in my town. Mm-hmm. you know, or, or personal trainers in my town. It has process where you're trained. So in Western medicine, how it operates right now is when you get sick, the first thing that we're all taught to do, let's go to the doctor. Go to the doctor, right? So you go to your primary care. And so once you get to that primary care doctor, they have a system, a literal system where if you say, Hey doc, my chest hurts. I have a chest pain. You're gonna say, oh, well I'll refer you to the cardiologist. Okay. And so that first line of that system, I suppose the second really begins. Mm-hmm. Okay. So now you're there at your referral place and they say, oh, well I'm gonna prescribe you a drug. It automatically gets sent to say cvs. Right? It's getting sent to the pharmacy. Yeah. And you're trained to just go there and pick. Okay. Around that you hope that your health insurance pays for it, right? There's financial integrations in place, or resources in place to help you afford these things. Yeah. Right Now you have the side effect, right? Mm-hmm. you go back to the doctor and you stay here forever. Yep. Yeah. I mean, we hope not, right? But very often that's what happens. People get trapped. Exactly. There's a lot more to that, but that whole system, a lot of people like say, healthcare's broken, right? I think there's parts of it that are broken, but for the most part it works pretty well. Look how sick everybody is. Yes. Right? I

Tyler: 17:22

mean, it's saying exactly what it was mean to

Sara: 17:24

do. Yeah, Yeah. Unfortunately, I

Chris: 17:26

was like, I argued that with somebody the other day. I'm like the legal system. They're like, it's broken. I'm like, no, it, it's doing what it's supposed to do. Right. Works.

Sara: 17:33

That's true. Most people don't look at it like that, but it really is. Yeah. And so we just say, you know, we're building a system. We build process infrastructure, we make getting wellness resources and in the most sensible, effective, and efficient way possible fast, all the things. Yeah. So that's what we're building is that.

Tyler: 17:54

So if someone calls in tomorrow or whenever they listen to this and they're like, you know what, I need some help with upper what would that process look

Sara: 18:00

like for them? Yeah. So first we have people fill out what's called a preexisting care record, where they just let us know, you know, here's the people I already see and here's why I see them and I want to keep them or switch them. Mm-hmm. So first we need to understand what you're already doing Right. And what life looks like. And so once people fill out that preexisting care record which really includes no personal health information, just a factor of contacts, it's a contact list. Oh, okay. Basically once you fill that out, we then go ahead and fulfill a massive list of options Okay. Within what you wanna switch. And so by law, you know, we could never tell you one place because that means we're telling you Right. You know where to go. Yeah. So everything has to be voluntary. And so we provide multiple options per category. And so we talk through why that option's ideal. You've also already filled out, by the way, essentially an intake form. That's a preference sheet. Oh, okay. Where you tell us your budget, do you have insurance or not? HSAs, which is a health savings account. Mm-hmm. Gender preferences of providers. Like a lot of girls only wanna see girls for ob gyn, things like that, you know? Makes sense. Yeah. And then just self-pay budget, like all these little nuances that help us figure out why op these options are good for you. And we do that all year round. So we continuously plan for you whether you're traveling, whether you're staying in one place. We also pay for appointments for you, book your appointments for you, sign you up for things, cancel things like we are leading in the best way we can from behind leading the way for you to be as healthy as you could be. That's where we start.

Tyler: 19:25

That's perfect for millennials because I know a lot of millennials don't like to make their own doctor's appointments.

Sara: 19:29

Yeah. They like to pick up the phone.

Chris: 19:31

Yeah, that's true. I mean, it's perfect for me because my wife has been on me. She's like, you need to go to a doctor. And I'm like, but. I don't like doctors. Yeah.

Sara: 19:40

Well, and you haven't found the right one, you know, there. Exactly. There's, well, I haven't been to one Yeah, I, okay, well, totally fair So you, you have this kind of preconceived notion of what a doctor will tell you or do with you. I got you. So there is such thing as naturopathic doctors. Are you familiar with them? No.

Chris: 19:56

I've heard the word

Sara: 19:57

at don't know. Most people are not familiar with them. I can't even believe having worked in the general wellness space for so long, I didn't hear about them until a couple years ago. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Well, they're not recognized in something like 24 plus states in the United States. They're not, they're allowed to practice but can't be covered by insurance. Mm-hmm. the biggest thing really is that you don't know who's a real doctor or not because their licenses aren't enforced. Mm-hmm. in so many states. Yeah. So a lot of people, we actually have dealt with people running around and learning about people who are running around pretending to be doctors that are not. Oh, wow. Specifically naturopaths. Yes. Because they're not recognized in the state of North Carolina. Mm. It's a problem. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But so a naturopathic doctor, just so you know, typically think of it in the most basic way, that they just give you natural options first. Okay. They're a hybrid of natural medicine and western medicine. But Western medicine's gonna be as last resort as it can get. Yeah.

Chris: 20:53

Yeah. So that's why I've heard of it. Cuz I have a friend who's been going through a lot of like health issues and she was going, she's like, well, I went to this normal doctor and normal doctor. Mm-hmm. well I call it a normal doctor because that's Western. Western Doctor. Western, yeah. And then she was like, well, I did some research and I saw this particular thing kind of helped. I was like, yep. I would've never known about that.

Sara: 21:17

Yeah. They also just look at the whole person more often. Right. And that's pretty much their job and their mission is to their mission. I believe in me medical school, what they follow is do no harm. Mm-hmm. is what they go by. And so they're per, they're just perpetually looking for the treatment that does something without the side effect. Ah, interesting. Yeah. That makes sense. It's a do no harm practice of medicine. That makes sense. Yeah. But yeah, when I say holistic, I mean they just look at every area of your life. Mm-hmm. Right. And that's pretty much what do no harm is, is, hey, oh, you've got this pain or you, you're dealing with this, rather than just me blanketing it with this pill to make that symptom go away, we're gonna say, well, did you sleep good last night? How much water do you drink? Yeah. Do you exercise? Do you have a family that loves you? You know, there's a lot of parts to you. and that's what, that's what they're concerned about the most. Huh.

Tyler: 22:05

I loved when I saw you guys partnered up with Madewell as well. Yes. Yeah. Because they embody that. Like I know a bunch of people that go there and I know a lot of their, Jennifer knows a lot of people that work there too. Yeah. And that, that's kind of their whole philosophy as well. They're kind of looking at the therapy side of it and then move into like, okay, well that's right. You're having this type of issue or problem. Are you eating right? Are you working out enough?

Sara: 22:29

Or they might be, they eat, sleep and breathe. That notion. I've heard a lot about a lot of providers, period. Mm-hmm. throughout the state of North Carolina since getting into the industry. Mm-hmm. So heavily and on the tech and administration, on administrative side. I've never heard anything bad about Madewell ever. Only good things. Fantastic. Yeah. It's awesome to hear. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: 22:51

For those like me who didn't know what Madewell was. It's a, it's a local company to Wilmington. Yes. And it looks like, it's like, is it off park? It's behind Hobby Lobby. Yes. For

Sara: 23:02

those. I haven't been there in physically in person before, but yeah, it's a very popular practice. It's a therapy office. They also now have health coaches there as well. Mm-hmm. I believe they do. I believe the owner is into yoga. She also certified yoga. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I believe she is. But yeah, they're very dynamic in the services that they provide. They make sure they are able to touch many points, not just one Nice. Mm-hmm.

Tyler: 23:25

So I'm sure we're starting a large company like this and growing at the, it seems like the growing at the speed that you're growing and having the backing that you have, trying trying, trying. It's, it's always trying at the first beginning stages. Yeah. what are some of the obstacles that you have faced and are facing

Sara: 23:42

now? My number one obstacle and is a personal obstacle is my ability to communicate what upper is and the problem it solves right away within 30 seconds. Mm-hmm. So just communicating well, exactly what it does, which is also why you don't see a lot of marketing about us online. It's not because I don't wanna market, I struggle every single day with what is the message that needs to be put out to the public. Right. You know, that's not just a filler post, but actually tells them something. Mm-hmm. And so I struggle to do that still. I'm learning how to do it. Yeah. Cuz it's very different. It's very new, you know, the wellness industry has never worked together. Right. And so it's the first thing I tell you that we provide you guidance. It really depends who you are. I think, you know, if it's a provider, I tell'em, Hey, we're gonna help you work together. Mm-hmm. right? Mm-hmm. But overall it's ever changing. I really try to customize it to who I'm talking to. But yeah, communication and marketing has been my number one obstacle so far. Yeah.

Tyler: 24:34

I, I can see that too, because you almost have to educate the

Sara: 24:37

consumer. Oh, a hundred percent. It's the adoption process. Exactly. It makes it slow Right.

Tyler: 24:42

Everyone's used to the, the western style of medicine. Right. Like go to primary get referred. So to change people's mind in general o other than the people already know about it and doing it mm-hmm. I could, I can definitely

Sara: 24:53

see that being an obstacle. Yeah. And what's really funny is that it's not hard to communicate it with investors, for example. Or with providers. Mm-hmm. with people who work in the space period. Yeah. Right. They get it almost right away. It's the consumer that I struggle with the most, cuz I've not, I've, of course, I've been a consumer, right. I've, I've been an athlete. I engaged in these things myself, but not in the mindset that I never understood it at all. I came out of college sports and understood it since I was a kid. Right. Almost. Yeah. So just learning the, the consumer Yeah. Side of the education. Yeah. I feel

Chris: 25:27

like that's an issue. A lot of people are having, like going from, like, I have this argument in my head all the time of like, oh, hey, everyone at the top level of businesses, like making products are like, oh, this is what everyone wants and this is what I'm telling you to get. But the people at our level are like, I, I don't want that. I would much rather prefer this. Yeah. Than how do you connect this information to this person and try to find someone who can translate. Yeah. Cause I feel like it's two separate languages because like you're talking to providers and they understand everything. Mm-hmm. it's like speaking, they do Japanese and then you, and then you switch over to talking to somebody at a base level and you're like, well, this is like aav. It's a totally. It's based off of something. So they should understand it, but some

Sara: 26:18

people don't. But they don't. Yeah, right. I just should start telling people, well, if you don't feel like looking online for all your wellness care, I'll do it for you. Save you a ton of money in time. Right. Yeah. But that's probably the easiest thing I could tell people. You should. It just needs to be more emotional

Chris: 26:30

than that Cuz it is, you know? Yeah. I mean if you condense it into an ad spott, I'm sure someone could like read it for you. Yeah.

Tyler: 26:37

I should listen to it. Yeah. I think a lot of it too is storytelling. It

Sara: 26:40

is. Which I have stories to tell Right. You never know. From the way I try to communicate it, that I went to college for communications,

Tyler: 26:51

and communications. It's a very large, broad It is. Yes. Concept. It

Sara: 26:55

is, it is. I was very into the theory side of things, but Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I should look into it cuz I do need help with it really bad. But

Chris: 27:02

Have you thought of hiring somebody for it?

Sara: 27:04

Not at the stage because it's not a stage. Where you could make it commission based and it makes sense. Okay. We're not in a, we're not at a level yet where we can hire and just pay someone essentially retainer, which is what payroll is. Okay. Right. So everything that we do right now is essentially commission based and it's all grow together, scale together.

Tyler: 27:21

Hmm. Need to find someone like the painter for Facebook that did a mural in the Facebook office, and he just got paid in shares when shares were like a quarter of

Sara: 27:31

a pan equity. Yeah. Yeah. I do have some partners that are in non inequity. Yeah. Okay. That's also something that your, your investors want you to be wary of.

Tyler: 27:40

Yeah. They're very

Sara: 27:40

concerned about that. Yeah. Well, you don't wanna give away your company. Exactly. You know, and if people don't perform, you've gotta find a way to get it revenue. Right. It's very hard. Yeah.

Tyler: 27:49

Yeah. Very hard because then you're buying them out for significantly more than what you want to. Mm-hmm. give someone for your own company. Yep. It's, yeah. It's not a good situation. No. Yeah.

Sara: 28:00

But so when you guys started Whisking Wisdom mm-hmm. did you have a plan to scale it big right away? Or is it something you just started doing for fun? We just are doing it for

Tyler: 28:08

fun. Yeah. Our, our

Sara: 28:09

very, that's the best. Yeah, that's the best. I just started doing health Possible for fun, my nonprofit, and it brought me to where I am now. Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

Chris: 28:16

Yeah. I feel like I never thought about it. Like we started, I've been seeing, I've hit that point of the year where everyone's posting, like just do it kind of mm-hmm. marketing out there and I'm like, you know, that's kind of what we did, is we just went out and did it. Mm-hmm. We would love to be profitable. I mean, that's what we have recording. Everybody would Right. I'm actually, I'm gonna be a thousand percent honest. Everyone's like, oh, I want to be pro. I don't. Capitalism is capitalism. I personally don't give a fuck I would much rather just go flat. Like if I, if we could recoup the money that we've invested in the space, I'm like, all

Sara: 28:51

right, let's go. So then what is your ultimate career goal if it's not to do something like this full-time and profit off it and live off of it?

Chris: 28:58

Oh, my ultimate career goal is to have a podcast studio in the back of a brewery or a bar and just chill and record whenever we want to. But you don't wanna be able to live off of it. That's what I'm saying. Just balance. Yeah. I'm, to me, being pro like overly profitable, like capitalism, everyone's like, oh, I'm making a ton

Sara: 29:19

of extra money. I got you. I got you. You don't, people having tons of money. No, I

Chris: 29:22

just want to be, pay off my mortgage, pay my bills, and I'm not like,

Sara: 29:27

so I would say that I felt like that my entire life until literally three weeks ago. And I'll tell you why. because I have learned over the years as someone who grew up with no money and getting to the point even that I'm at now, which I still don't make you know, money in my company, which is fine, but I've planned to now, right. Which I didn't used to plan to, and now I very actively and proactively plan to. But with money being a tool and being able to truly experience what it's done, even moving from, I mean, I'm still at both, but having a non-profit and a for-profit and how they've even helped each other so much and to help so many more people, it's a tool. to help more and more people, right? Mm-hmm. So depending on what you use the money for, you know, I think that if you're gonna profit a ton and have no plans with it, and just say, I guess I'll just buy Rolls Royce, right? Or I'll, or I'll buy my ass and Martin, like, you know, that's one type of person and that's one way of living. But your goal with that money could of course be to open somebody else's podcast studio or to, you know, help the next entrepreneur or to even open another business with just another mission. Yeah. You know, so what you put that money into is really, of course, contingent on who you are. But the money that I plan to make with the companies will continue to just fund more companies and, and impact on more and more people. That's my goal. Huh? There's

Tyler: 30:49

a few people that I know in my business that their. Purpose for making money was to create more businesses, like what you said as well. In order to provide more jobs, individuals to have living wages and to be able to have a good work environment. Yes. And to build an organization like that.

Sara: 31:08

Mm-hmm. I was telling somebody this morning, thank you, by the way. Yeah. I'm excited to try this one. It's like my, not latte latte. Right. I was telling somebody this morning over Instagram, they p and I won't say here cause I don't want people to know what it is cuz it'll happen before I wanna open it. Right. But they posted a certain business that is adjacent to a company I wanna open. Mm-hmm. and I wrote them and I said, oh my gosh, I cannot believe that you're doing this. This is something I want on upper, and then long term, here's actually an idea I have with this industry. Hmm. And I told them my next business move. And they were like, oh my gosh, that would be awesome. And I've already, a couple people I've just surveyed it with have already asked, oh, can you, if you do that tomorrow, can you come to my house? Like, can you, can I be your Guinea pig, the sun note I actually, with no intention of opening it and just staying focused on progressing, you know what I currently have. Right. Probably already collected five significant leads. Oh, that's great. Which is cool, right. And it makes it so hard to stay discipline. But yeah, always looking ahead to the next company is. The move. Yeah. I think that's

Tyler: 32:10

something I've noticed about entrepreneurs in general. Cause I'm similar in a aspect where you get started on one thing and you see another opportunity, like, just like slightly left of that and you start focusing on that and you're like, oh no, I, I need, need to build this bridge first. This bridging needs to be finished before I can build another bridge. It's

Sara: 32:26

an easy trap to fall into. And entrepreneurship, I mean, serial entrepreneurs experience the addiction of problem solving. Mm-hmm. because once you solve one problem, you inherently learn all the millions of tiny problems that live inside that big problem. Yeah. Right? And so there's a lot of investors out there in the world who will only invest in a company that is like a graduation. Right. Or an extension of the former. Yeah. Because once you learn how to solve a problem, the solutions from there on become endless. Right? Mm-hmm. And, and the, the potential success then becomes endless cuz you found a trail that can forever be placed. Yeah.

Tyler: 33:06

Yeah. It's that process as soon as you've figured out the, the magic potion for that process mm-hmm. and that investor understands that you know what your process is and they can kind of see that same path along the way. Mm-hmm. it's so much easier to start raising money

Sara: 33:21

at that point. Yep. Exactly. But also why they're serial entrepreneurs, right? Yeah, exactly. can't stop solving problems.

Tyler: 33:28

Gosh. Yeah. So if there was

Chris: 33:30

Yeah, Well it's funny cuz like, I feel like that's entrepreneur wise, there's a lot of people in like the millennial age range because a lot of our parents and grandparents said, Hey, fix this, do this until we got used to solving problems. And then you're like, well, let's profit off of that. And now I'm stuck being the problem solver at the store all the time.

Tyler: 33:51

Yeah. that's the other thing too. There's, everyone wants to be an entrepreneur for whatever reason and Yeah. Which is, which is good for that person. Yeah. Yeah. But what people don't realize and don't put enough. I guess emphasis on is what's called an intrapreneur. So someone that is solving problems inside an organization, and there's a lot of value for that. And yes,

Sara: 34:15

go ahead. I recently told somebody who came to me for advice on what they should do for a living and potential entrepreneurship, that not everything has to be a hundred percent reinvented. Mm-hmm. or invented period. Right. You know, by yourself. There's so many companies that exist. I, I actually wonder if our schools, you know, are lacking the effort to help kids not find the industry they wanna be in, but find the company already solving the problem that they align with. Mm-hmm. Right. And care to solve the most. I. I would never not be an entrepreneur just because it's at this point it's truly in my blood. Mm-hmm. right? Yeah. Truly. But if I were to ever not be an entrepreneur, hypothetically, I would just look for the right company period. Where I knew I could be the intra. Right. Right. And just provide that value. I mean, how that's not equally as or nearly equally as fulfilling. I'd be surprised. Certainly. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Joint forces. I was,

Chris: 35:12

I was like, that makes sense cuz every entrepreneur probably needs an entrepreneur to help

Sara: 35:17

them. A hundred percent. Absolutely. Yeah. We're nothing without our people, you know? Behind every successful entrepreneur are how many, potentially hundreds to thousands of mm-hmm. Brilliant people. That's what a successful entrepreneur is. They're simply surrounded by absolute brilliance and the ability to execute.

Tyler: 35:34

There's a person we know that I won't say on the thing but he owns a couple businesses and he needs an entrepreneur. Extremely. Yeah. Bad.

Sara: 35:43

Yeah. And there's plenty of'em. I mean, I encourage my own fiance to go, you know, start his own company because he's so talented. Yeah, so talented. Yeah. Ranks high in his company nationally every year. And the industry in general every year. Wow. Yeah. Really successful, smart person. And he says to me all the time, I don't want that responsibility. Mm-hmm. he said, I love doing this in general. Like, I love putting in the effort and I love being successful and proactive and doing these things. But nothing about me wants to actually own the company and potentially lose it someday. Right. Because every company has to die. You're just always procrastinating with death, you know, that's what companies are. And so he's a perfect example of that. He is only and wants to be an entrepreneur. They are totally out there. Yeah.

Tyler: 36:22

With me and my partner, we, we have that conversation every few months, or I guess every couple years, but, cause we could always go out on our own mm-hmm. and do whatever we're doing. But it's, do we want to take everything with us that the company that we currently are under the banner of is taking care of. So it's like, and also too, the other thing that we have to, yeah, the other thing we have to weigh is if we're worried about if the paper and toner is coming in, am I truly helping my client to the fullest ability? Mm-hmm. Yep. So that's another thing too. It all depends on the

Sara: 36:54

organization. It does priorities. I think it's also a lot of personality. Mm-hmm. So when I was a trainer, this is seven ish years ago. It was a while ago. It was Were you at Golds? I was at O two Fitness. Oh, okay. Hanover. So in original O two. Yeah. There's a lot of people who were at Goldson who are at now O two people, but they're really good people. Yeah, right. Yeah. But but I was an O two person. I loved training. I really did. Cuz I just loved helping people, right? Mm-hmm. But it got really monotonous, you know, every hour on the hour, minute to minute. And if I'm being super honest, I got my first job when I was 12, and I mean, a real job. Like I was, my mom would wake me up at four o'clock in the morning and we'd drive to the next town and she'd drop me off and I'd be there for the day. Wow. So I was tired by the time I was in my twenties. Oh sure. Really, really freaking tired and so loved helping people. But at the same time I was trying to solve that problem of affordability. I also really just wanted to not be on that front line. I wanted to get behind a computer and just be at my apartment and just work on things, you know, by myself, but in a, in a way that I knew I still had a direct line to that client where I was still touching. Like, I was very much, you know, not in control, but like, Helping navigate or, or guide them. Yeah. Right. Putting them on a path that guided them correctly. And so for me, that was just getting behind the curtains and that's a reason I wanted to be an entrepreneur. Okay. I didn't wanna be a delivery person anymore. Delivery is for plenty of people. Yep. I didn't wanna be the delivery. I wanted to be the, the creative.

Tyler: 38:28

Yeah. Yeah. That's neat.

Chris: 38:29

Yeah. You wanna be

Sara: 38:30

the Wizard of Oz. I wanted a freaking, I wanted, I wanted rest. Right. I really just wanted to sit in my house, take a break. Right. No, I'm teasing. But yeah, no, it really helped though. And I've thrived doing that. It's definitely for me. Good.

Tyler: 38:45

Yeah. With where you're at now, what would you ask the community as in the Wilmington or new Hanford County community that they could provide?

Sara: 38:54

Ooh. That they could provide me. Mm-hmm. Oh

Tyler: 38:56

man. Because as entrepreneurs you like to try to solve problems for others, but very rarely do entrepreneurs know what they want to ask

Sara: 39:03

from others. Ask from others. Yeah. I think it kind of goes hand in hand with just the ability to communicate what we do which is education, right? In an adoption process, I would really like the community to just pay more attention to their own life and where things come from. And so I think the simplest message, message that I could send is, you know, even down to do you buy your food locally, which can sound so cliche. But at the same time that very small, significant practice truly gets people healthier. And I don't even say it with the intent to, you know, just support local businesses. Of course, that matters so much economically, but when we're talking about health and healthcare, Knowing where your food comes from and what's in it, and whether those animals are pumped with hormones or not, or so many other things. How far do they have to travel? Are they at steroids to go across the country to make'em last? Right? Yeah. There's so much that happens to your food when you're not getting it from right there in town. Entertaining, tiny little behaviors like that bring significant change to the message I'm trying to send, or acceptance, right, of the message I'm trying to send. Which will also make people inherently leverage us as that resource for what should I be buying? Where should I be buying it, right? Who is selling it? Where can I get, how much does it cost? All those questions that you wanna find out about those things are what we are here for. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. You know, so all those little nuances is my word today, I guess right? All those little nuances Yeah. Matter a lot. I'd like for people to just care more about, you know, their own environment. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Tyler: 40:36

And so with everything you have going on right now, I'm gonna steal Chris's question. I'm sorry. What does success look like to you?

Sara: 40:43

Oh, touching millions of people's lives. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Just being able to, being able to meet someone on the street that you've never met before in your life and not that you need them to reference your company. Mm-hmm. like that's not your company name, is not what necessarily matters in that, but the fact that your doing touched them. For them to say, oh, you know, I went through this company called Upper and they helped me, you know, change my whole marriage. Or all of a sudden I started farming at my own house. Or you know, I found the doctor that changed my life and cured X, Y, Z, who I never would've found from my insurance company. Oh, neat. To be able to run into a total stranger and run into instances like that, which has actually happened to me a couple times recently. Oh, that's great. Nice. Is really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Really cool.

Chris: 41:32

On a random note, cuz. Chris is Chris. I will say their website's actually super easy. Mm-hmm.

Sara: 41:38

I have it pulled up here. So basic, it's the most basic thing I'm

Chris: 41:41

gonna drink after. And I'm like, oh cool. It's, I mean, it's set up similar how I have stuff at the store and it's like just a Google doc, just fill it out, answer some questions and you've set up an appointment. Mm-hmm. So it's not like me. The other day I tried to call Wilmington Health and set up an appointment and they were like, okay, we'll put you on hold. And I sat on hold for like 20 minutes. Oh God. And I'm in, I live in the boonies. Oh. So I lost cell phone service and I'm like, I can't sit in my car cuz it's the only place of service. Ugh. For an hour.

Sara: 42:13

I'm like, that little thing right there is, I will, I will give credit where credit is due. That little tiny thing that happened to you is one of the reasons people do say healthcare is broken. Yeah. Right. That's a little, yeah. A little big thing. Go ahead.

Chris: 42:25

But I was just like, Hey, you know, it's quick, easy. It's a quick little survey. I think everyone should. take a few minutes, fill it out if you don't have a care provider or if you need to update

Sara: 42:35

yours. Yeah. Even if you just wanna switch. Mm-hmm. I think, yeah. One of the bigger things I've been telling folks right now, I, I started going onsite with our partners and just sitting at, say, for example, O two Fitness. Right. And I just sit there and help members essentially triage them out of the gym mm-hmm. To services they need that aren't there. And so it's interesting. Yeah. It's going really well too. But one of the big things I've been telling people, Hey, do you have a doctor? Whether they say yes or no, if you say no, I can help you find one. If you say yes, I say, do you want one that's not a pill pusher? Mm-hmm. And so there's an immediate option to switch. Yeah. Right, right. I've only heard one person so far and about three or four weeks tell me they don't have a pill pushing doctor. Isn't that crazy? I believe it. Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

Chris: 43:15

Yeah. I mean there's, it is crazy. But I also know people in pharma who are like, Hey, Mm-hmm.

Tyler: 43:24

they really,

Sara: 43:24

I'm making a lot of money. They really believe in their, yeah. That is, I think a bigger push. But yeah, there's a place for it. I mean, if I'm on, if I'm too far gone and already on, you know, I don't wanna call it life support, but even treating a pill like it's life support. You know, there's diabetics who, if they don't have their insulin, they're gonna die. Yeah. You know, and so you can do things simultaneously, whether that's insulin and fitness, or insulin and nutrition, probably nutrition, right? Yeah. Right. But I mean, there's things that can happen in a hybrid sense, but just the, the fast prescription process is crazy. It should be the last mm-hmm. last thing we go

Tyler: 44:00

to. Yeah. Mean to that point, when nearly 75% of every commercial that you watch is mm-hmm. pharmaceutical. Some

Sara: 44:08

sort of, I think, yeah, I think, sorry, not to extend you guys over time here. No, no, you're good. You're good. You got plenty of time. I think what bothers me the most about the pharmaceutical industry is not even the fact that they're pharmaceuticals, right. I think drugs have helped us come a long way as a society. Yeah. But they invent their customer. Mm-hmm. I think that's what bothers me the most, you know, by buying out the education system with grants and by buying out the food industry right. On the way we interpret data. Yeah. Little things like that. The, the research that's, that gets funded. Like we only fund, and I can't really say only, but we majority fund, you know, pharmaceutical evidence versus the evidence behind acupunc. Maybe, you know, but they really invent their customer by making us sick with food. So many other things. And then,

Tyler: 44:56

because I'm sure you saw the side effects. Yeah. I'm sure you saw the research that just came out too, that Lucky charms is healthier than eggs. Right.

Sara: 45:04

what that's invented. That right there is inventing your customer Exactly. That's insane. Like if I get, that's a

Tyler: 45:10

legit research that came out. No.

Sara: 45:12

Did you see that? You didn't see that Oh my God. Yeah.

Tyler: 45:15

Yes. One of the healthiest things you can have is Honey Nut Cheerios too,

Sara: 45:19

by the way. It breaks my heart that people believe it. See Ugh.

Chris: 45:24

But okay, so I'm also one of those people who thinks the government is just in general toying with our

Tyler: 45:33

lives.

Sara: 45:34

Yeah. Yes. Yes they are. They do. They absolutely do.

45:37

But

Chris: 45:37

that makes me laugh cuz I'm like, well, statistically speaking. You know, lucky Charms is cheaper than a dozen of eggs currently. Debatable. Right?

Tyler: 45:47

So

Chris: 45:47

highly debatable. That's why they're like in this argument, me personally, I'm like, they didn't

Tyler: 45:52

ask for the price of it. It said healthier. Say

Sara: 45:54

that statistic alone. The price statistic alone only talks about the literal price Right on the front of the tank. Mm-hmm. What it does not talk about is how much of it you need in general and over how much time. Right. That dictates how much money you're gonna spend on that object. Yes. Right. So how many Cheerios do I need versus how many eggs do I need to be full? Yeah. Very different. Or to get my nutrient density, you know, very different. Very different metric. Different.

Chris: 46:19

Yeah. Which is why I need more friends who have little farms that can produce eggs.

Sara: 46:27

Do you have any land or even a deck to have potted.

Chris: 46:32

I do have land. We're actually looking, so this was like random things we were looking at for this

Sara: 46:37

next year, you're gonna be the sixth prospect. My next business, keep going.

Chris: 46:40

Was to like, we, we bought our house and we put the fence in and I was like, Hmm. I'm pretty sure my HOA standards said I could put my fence further up my house. And so my goal is to move it up the side of my house and then have like a small garden. Okay. On the side of it. There you go.

Sara: 46:56

Do you wanna do it yourself or do you want somebody else to do it for you?

Chris: 46:59

I would much rather someone else do it for me. Boom.

Sara: 47:01

Because prospect number six, here,

Chris: 47:03

we, we go, I at that weird spot where time and convenience hits and work drains so much out of me that I'm like, my day off is cleaning the. And I need a day of chill.

Tyler: 47:15

Yeah, you need a break. You need to meet Robert Collins. Okay. Who's that? He was on one of our episodes with what you're talking about right there. He would be fantastic to talk to. Cause Oh yeah. He, that's what he does. See, I

Sara: 47:27

tell people without telling people what it is. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But it, it will be life changing. Yeah. Yeah. I think it would do. Yeah. Especially with all these, China's buying our farmland right now. Mm-hmm. Oh my God. We have to put a stop to that quickly. Oh.

Tyler: 47:41

Not to, not to push our own podcast. Find Robert Collins episode. I'm going to, I

Sara: 47:45

think you'll, you'll push your own podcast. be a business owner,

Tyler: 47:48

right? Yeah. Push my own podcast. My own podcast.

Chris: 47:50

We, that's good. I think my neighborhood is weird cuz the HOA won't allow you to have farm animals. Yeah. Which I try to argue that I should be able to have a pig and they're like, no, it's considered a farm animal. I'm like, tag, it's my

Sara: 48:02

support. Animal, animal. What's their, what's their reasoning behind no farm animals? Yeah. Because it's

Chris: 48:07

in

Sara: 48:07

Hoa so loud. Is it according to that, I wonder if it's due to smell or My assumption most HOA is uniform and cleanliness. Mm-hmm. if

Chris: 48:18

cleanliness as well as resale value for the rest of the neighborhood. Because if every, if multiple people have farm anyways, I'm not arguing with that. But a lot

Sara: 48:26

of, another thing that could change is healthcare changes and food. Yeah. Where food comes from changes.

Chris: 48:30

Yeah. Like a lot of my neighbors have their own, like above ground gardens.

Sara: 48:34

Yeah. I mean that should be a right. You can't dictate where I get my food from. I mean, that's a big deal.

Chris: 48:40

So that's kind of the thing I, I'm trying to learn. I'm slowly letting my thumbs turn green as, as we're growing stuff in the house and I'm like, if I can make this last, then potentially I can grow something

Sara: 48:51

outside. Yeah. Oh, you can. And if you can't, my next company can. So

Chris: 48:57

So I got total away from being healthy. We're gonna go backwards. good. How did you, what did you think about this? Bottled and bone? Definitely

Tyler: 49:06

stronger. It's much stronger than Haler. Much stronger, yeah. Oh, for sure.

Sara: 49:10

I mean, yeah, I got a lot of the coffee flavor now I have to drink it again just to Yeah, it's,

Tyler: 49:15

it's a little bit more than the vanilla latte, I'm sure.

Sara: 49:18

Yeah. a lot more coffee in there. Yeah. Yeah. But I am probably gonna buy the banana one. Okay. Come up with a craft cocktail for that or just reach out. Reach out to be in the flow. Right. Brian? I love them over there. Flying machine bartender. Okay. I was like, why

Chris: 49:34

does, he's awesome. My brain connects everything and it takes me half a second.

Tyler: 49:38

Oh yeah. But yes, I'm with you. I think of people in terms of their Instagram handle. Yeah, yeah.

Sara: 49:44

Yeah. I mean, if that's the only place you see them and talk to them and Yeah, that makes sense. It becomes your

Chris: 49:48

identity. Yeah. I mean, it could be a good smoothie though. Like you can mix that ballade this.

Sara: 49:52

Oh yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Or even a dessert cocktail. Yeah. Yes. Like those dessert drinks. Oh, I love those with the ice cream and everything. Mm-hmm. I've never even had one, but I want one. I know. They just look so good. I dream about them. Yeah. And I don't even love alcohol that much. Right.

Chris: 50:06

Yeah. And my second question, because Tyler stole mine, if you could tell your younger self something, what would it be? Oh

Sara: 50:16

I used to think that I was a really stupid kid, like a really, and I, because I was not good at academics and I was not a good student at all. I talk about this a lot actually, when I end up in interviews, around podcasts, around the radio or anything like that. I was so bad at school and I let this pre, you know, created environment, let me think. Something of myself that just didn't have to be that way. You know, and I wonder sometimes how would homeschooling have affected my self-confidence about academics differently? Just to have a different environment Right. Or a different structure around it. But I would say to my younger self that just because something is the way it is doesn't mean it has to be that way or be done that way, or be done that way forever. Yeah. And that's not something, I don't think kids think outside the box as often as they could or as in depth as they could. Mm-hmm. And so I didn't learn how to learn until, or how I learned probably until I was 22. Wow. I struggled all the way through school. Yeah. I was diagnosed learning disabled when I was in the ninth grade. That followed me for eight years through college. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. A separate location, help with exams reading things to me and I could read, but there was almost this like filter that I couldn't read mm-hmm. because I couldn't retain information. Things were explained very poorly. Everything is talked at you. Yep. Yes. At school. It's not actually a fluid conversation. Yeah. I would just have challenged myself to go learn how I learn much earlier, so that even when I struggled in school, maybe I could have gone home and called a lot of early experienced people and had conversations about the topic over the phone and learn that way. Or just even, even with my own teacher, you know, that would've been fine too. Yeah. Learned how I learned earlier would've gotten a lot farther than I am now.

Tyler: 52:03

I didn't learn that until I wasn't getting my masters because there was one time. Painful. Yeah. Yeah. I, I sat down with one of my professors. and similar thing too. It it's being talked at you, right? Yeah. And there was one thing I'm like, I should be able to get this. It seems so simple. Why can't I understand it? Because

Sara: 52:18

you weren't able to provide anything

Tyler: 52:20

back. Yeah. And I went and I sat down just across the desk from her and we talked about it for like 25 minutes and clicked instantly. Mm-hmm. And it was, it was

Sara: 52:30

amazing. People think that that is what school is, but it's not. Mm-hmm. It's not at all. Mm-hmm.

Chris: 52:35

It's weird because like I said, I'm, I'm the problem solver. Mm-hmm. someone, some people might argue that statement or sentiment. No, but I'm sure you sure you are. I've hit the point where I'm like, Hmm. You know, every I know because my wife's a teacher and my mom's a teacher. I know everyone learns differently, right. And having to sit there at the store level and be like, oh, hey, like you need to learn this, this, and this. And they're like, well, I don't learn this way. I'm like, Okay, cool. I hear you. Yeah. But this is what's required. I need you to go through this Isn't that terrible? And take notes. And then I will go back behind and be like, okay, let's educate you how you makes the most sense. Like mm-hmm. if you need to learn watches, okay. Go through this course, take some notes, you take whatever time you need, and then we'll go through and get hands on. Mm-hmm. because a lot of people are like, oh, I need to do this, but like with my hands and do it. And I'm like, that's fine. But I still need to like, just like with school, I still gotta check the

Sara: 53:34

box. Yeah. Isn't that terrible? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not a way too advanced society, that's for sure. Definitely. Or, or quickly, you mentioned something about your masters. Mm-hmm. and I almost. went for my master's and my now fiance back then posed a very significant question that changed the entire trajectory of my career. Hmm. We had just gotten together, we might have been together maybe six months, and I said I got into the ECU Brody School of Medicine. Mm-hmm. for it's a good school for a master's in public health. And so I already had my non-profit, had no idea what I wanted to do, though I wasn't living off my non-profit, I was still at another job. Yeah. And so I said, I'm gonna go to ECU and go back to school. And he was like, well, if you do that, I just wanna let you know I'm not interested in long-distance relationships. Hmm. And it's only two hours away. Yeah. But obviously if you're in school full-time, he works full-time. He still work. Yeah. It still matters, right? Mm-hmm. there's still time, significant time taken away. And so I had to consider that. And then he said, well, do you know why you're going back to school? What do you wanna do with it? And I said, well, I have no idea. That's why I'm going back so I can figure it out, And he said, that's the opposite reason why you should ever get a degree. you should only get a degree when you know you'll be paid back for it. When you know exactly what it's for, when it has outlet and purpose. Mm-hmm. And so I did not go back to school. That's very smart. I did not go back to school. And then I met somebody the other day and, and I'm obviously happy about it now and I might have been happy about it either way, but I'll tell you what, financially I'd been in a lot more debt than I am right now. True. No, I'm almost in no debt right now. Yeah. But that was$46,000 for two years. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I can't even remember actually if it was per year or for the two years. I wanna say it was 46 for both years. Yeah. But then I met somebody just the other day and she said, I'm going back to school. For, I won't even say what it is cuz I don't wanna sound, you know, too critical or anything. But but she said, I'm going back to school for X And I said, oh, well what do you wanna do with it? Always remember. Yeah. Because I went through that conversation. Yeah. You know, and she said, oh, I have no idea. And I had met her for. You know, 120 seconds, like I had been sitting there for like two minutes and so I wanted so bad to say that is the opposite reason. Yeah. That you should go to school and I didn't have in me to potentially offend this poor girl. Yeah, yeah. You know, and so I didn't say anything, but I was like, God that helped me so much and changed my life. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Makes a big difference. Yeah, it does. What did you go for?

Tyler: 56:04

Finance. Okay. So that's my full-time job. That's awesome. Yeah. You had a reason to do it, so I had a reason to do it. Yeah. I paid for it while I was going to school and everything, so I should have asked you

Sara: 56:13

that first

Tyler: 56:14

Well, no. So it's fine. Yeah, and I'll be honest, the reason why I went back is one, I knew I was going into finance. That's, yeah. Like everyone talks about their purpose, their burn, whatever the case may be. I knew that's where mine was. Mm-hmm. So that was one reason I went back. The other reason why I went. I didn't do my undergrad properly. I was only there to get the grade. I worked 50 hours a week. Yeah. I would go pass great. Mm-hmm. and I didn't get the connections that I wanted. Mm-hmm. So I went back with the intention of being extremely involved those next two years. Smart. And to meet everyone and to make all of the connections and network so smart. And that's how I got the job that I have now. So it fully paid

Sara: 56:50

off. Thank goodness. That's interesting. Yeah. That actually really is what school should be for, is the connection, creation and the networking. Mm-hmm. I did not use it for that at all. I mean, I made connections, but none had anything to do with the career I ended up in. Right. You know? But all the people I met at the gym helped me open my first company. Yeah. And so I learned how to leverage them, but it was a year

Tyler: 57:08

after my bachelor. that I was looking at. Some of the people I had grad graduated with and people I'd go to school with and I'm like, dang, they got all of these like crazy jobs. I'm like, that guy's done with a box of rocks. Like, what the heck did Yeah. Like he barely passed. Mm-hmm. And I was like, oh, but he did this internship, he did that internship. He met with this executive at this place and that's

Sara: 57:27

how he got this. Do you believe, and I wanna bring more depth to the saying, but do either of you believe it's not what you know, it's who you know? Facts.

Chris: 57:34

Mm-hmm. not even. No

Sara: 57:36

question about that. Bring depth. Bring depth.

Chris: 57:37

Why? So it's because my argument is Tyler went to school to make more connections, right? Sure. And he needed it to get in his space because without it, he would be treading water trying to get into that space. Mm-hmm. Whereas me, I didn't go to school like I did. I went for like total of a year. Okay. And. I was like, okay, cool. School's not for me. I'm smart. I enjoy, I well, but it's not for me. Yeah. I'm like, I enjoy learning, but not at what this pace is at. Yeah. So I went to school and I was like, nah, bump, this went back into retail, bump this. I love it. Because I, I joined the military. I could technically have it paid for. That's awesome. But all of the jobs I've gotten since leaving school mm-hmm. have been because of making connections and being the great salesperson I am. Yeah. And so I've moved up from making like barely over non-taxable to what I'm making now. Sure. I'm a great person and making connections so it's

Sara: 58:39

not Well, and you're a great person, and so people want to do business with you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. right? Yeah. I think that it is still both, and this is my opinion. Yeah. But I think it is who you know, right. It opens a door, it gives you opportunity, and of course you do, like people need to, want to do business with you. Yep. Or want to empower you. But once you get in the door, Now can you learn how to do it right? Yeah. Right. How fast can you learn how to do it? Can you, because then if you can't perform, you know, just cuz you know somebody, I think that comes down to like, if it's only who you know forever and ever and you can't learn, that's like terrible family generational businesses that just can't fire the son of the daughter, you know? Yeah, yeah. But I would say that if I couldn't perform on various spaces, like people would've been definitely quick to drop me and nothing personal, but No. Yeah, I,

Tyler: 59:23

I definitely agree with that too. After you make that connection, you prove that you're, you're worth what you're worth. Then being able to learn that position, definitely because mm-hmm. then it doesn't really matter going forward. Right? Yeah. Because then you stay in the same place. It doesn't matter who you meet because you didn't learn. Yeah. Going

Sara: 59:38

onwards. There's a lot of bitter people in the world, and I only bring it up because there are so many bitter people in the world will just say, oh, well, you know, that's because your friends or this, or your parents or that, or you're this and that. But I mean, that only matters for a second. Right. You know, and yeah, I'm good at networking or I'm good at selling myself, but you've still got to learn it. You know? My brain's kept me there. Yeah. Yeah. My kindness got me there. My brain's kept me there. That's great. I like that. Yeah.

Chris: 1:00:04

Yeah. So now that we're coming near the end Yeah. And we, we've talked about your.

Sara: 1:00:13

And how basic it is. needs. I love, it's simple. US best. Yeah. The, the marketing and the website is actually what needs the most funding this year. But I,

Chris: 1:00:21

I love it cuz it's classic. Oh, thanks But my question is, how can people like where they can they find it? Yeah.

Sara: 1:00:29

You just visit upper.health. upper.health. Mm-hmm. And we are gonna take our marketing a lot more seriously this year. Okay. There's the famous saying, right? You can't do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Mm-hmm. it's the definition of insanity. And so I've not had a focus on marketing our whole first year and a half. And so this year my intent is to focus much more on the marketing and this so it should be much easier to find us on things like Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook. We have all those accounts. You could just go to upper health or Upper health and you'll find us. Nice. Yeah.

Chris: 1:00:59

Yeah. I was curious. I was trying to like Google it earlier. Yeah. And I was like, let me ask her.

Sara: 1:01:04

Still. It's still a secret. Yeah. Yeah. Not for long. I love it. Yeah. Thank you. I

Chris: 1:01:09

appreciate that. Of course, that's what I'm hearing is I'm, I'm the one to ask the, the weird questions. That's an important

Tyler: 1:01:15

question. They weren't weird

Sara: 1:01:16

They were not weird. I'm glad that you asked. Good.

Chris: 1:01:19

So yeah, thank you for coming on, Sarah.

Sara: 1:01:21

Thank you Chris. Thank you Tyler. Absolutely. I appreciate you guys having me on. Yeah,

Chris: 1:01:24

thank you. I gained a lot of wisdom. What about you? Oh, of course

Tyler: 1:01:28

I did. That's why I reached out this Sarah a

Chris: 1:01:30

few months ago. Thanks. That's awesome. Oh no, it's been great having you on just learning so much about your company personally. I'm like, I would've never known any of these things. Cause like we mentioned, I'm living a sh bubble.

Sara: 1:01:42

No, it's okay. I also just don't tell anyone so I'll make it easier so everybody can just find it online and they don't have to call me up all the time.

Chris: 1:01:52

Easy enough. Yeah. So yeah, check out the links in the description. Follow us like us. Leave us a five star review. Thanks for joining. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.