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Welcome back everybody to the Amazing Whiskey and Wisdom podcast. We are recording yet again in the Cargo District recording studios in the soon to be newly mentored secondary building of Coworks. Yep. And have a food court on the back of it, so that'll be fun. You're doing a lot of construction today, so if you hear anything in the background, I'm sorry. That's what it is. Yeah. We don't ever record during the daytime, so I forgot to do construction. Oh, Uhoh, No, it's all good. But this week we have returning guests, Catherine. Hey. And someone that a lot of people should know if they don't, Mr. Lowell. I'm just kidding. It's landed. But yes, we are drinking something different because we're Noah's 75 hard except for Catherine who's now on 75 hard. So she won't. You partaking? Yes. What's funny is, full times I been on this podcast, I'm not drinking. You know what? That's true. So we're gonna have to bring you back a third time and hopefully we can get you to have something one of these days and I'll bring the bottle that time. Okay. Whoever finds Kentucky out, confiscated first to bring it on for your podcast. There we go. Oh, and something else before we jump into that is our last episode we had on Emmy Gibson, who just received the Star News 40 under 40 award. Mm-hmm. Landon received it last year and Catherine was one of the first recipients to get it in 2019. See? So we're just bringing on these great people who are under 40 Eventually we'll have somebody over 40 again, but I, I'd just be the deadline. I am. I am 40 now, so. Oh. So, oh, see, there we go. I was gonna say both Chris and Tyler, you're next, but then I don't know how old you're Chris. No one does. He's 45. I'm real close to 40. So you're not, you're not that close. Anyway, what are we drinking today, So this week we're sipping on the Firestone of Robertson's, Texas. Straight bourbon. You're right. I just smell that it's strong. This is just age for just over four years in north Texas. um, And it's set up and uses grain corn, wheat and barley grown by a fourth generation farmer up in Texas. So they try and keep it local. But Oh, that makes sense, Texas. That's why you coughed. Yes, But on the nose a little floral maple. No, it's ta bit of cinnamon. It's, it is not. It's, it's a little strong. But we should taste a little all spice brown sugar and fig. And I promise we will post a picture of a fig, compare it to a date if anybody doesn't know the difference. Thank you, I'm gonna Google that when we leave. Cheers. I feel like you need some, you'll get on their level. make your afternoon more interesting. Tastes better with water. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely smoother than I expected when it was, when it's said from Texas. Yeah. I expected to be like, it's, it's not that bad. I've, Palmer would be very proud of me to find something that I don't like. But you don't like it? It's not that great. Oh, it smells really good. That's like since I've been on 75 hard, I've smelled so much alcohol. I never smell, I never smelled it before. But now someone will have a glass be. Can I smell your wine please? You be like a sommelier now. Yeah, pretty much. It's like smelling that me and my mouth water and it's not even good So it does taste better when you add a little bit of water in it because it does open it up, which is why I think it smells better now. Mm. It's opened a little bit more. I love that you guys are super honest about what you drink. Cause I felt like you just had to like, talk up every bottle of whiskey you opened. Just they have great, I don't, I we are not sponsored currently, so if you do wanna sponsor us, anybody Yeah. we'll talk up. Yes, please. Uncle Nearest. You know anybody in the Blanton's family, please we'll take it. Yeah, and I, you won't, we won't have to try to talk it up cuz we like everyone in those families, so. Yes, it works. I love how you're already laying the groundwork for that picture, Right. Just in case you never know. So we did talk about you a little bit last time, Catherine, so if anyone didn't listen to that one, please listen to that as well. We'll talk about you more in a second. But for everyone who may not know Landon go ahead and tell everyone who's listening a little bit about yourself. Oh, well so you born, born and raised here in Wilmington. Went to Duke back in 2000. Spent a year in Miami for law school, transferred back to Duke. Still wondering why I did that one, but after, had a really good time in Miami. But after that came, worked. I worked for Zimmer Development and Reeds Jewelers, both family owned here in Wilmington and then went back to business school for a weekend executive MBA back in maybe 2010. happy to be here. Love, love Wilmington. I love working here. Don't see myself anywhere else and appreciate you all having me on. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for taking time outta your day to come on in the middle of a Monday. Happy to be here. He, just so you know, he's not drinking He is a responsible adult So wait, you, you wouldn't rather be in Miami right now? Miami would be nice. Right now it's, it's probably, probably a little, probably uh, some sunny, sunny beaches there. But now my family, you know, extended family's here and grew up here, just really like North Carolina. And Catherine and or Landon, how did you guys meet each other for the first time? Was it a think Jesse was having a, some business 40 under 40 or something, was it? Or not 40, under 40. Wasn't there a some real estate event at Penthouse? I think something like that. And yeah, just through networking. I think everybody that's in any industry in this town will overlap at some point. That's the reason why I wanted to bring it up too, just because I know you both are a lot at a lot of networking events and kind of get around that way. Actually shout out for Jesse cause I would like to have him on the podcast at some point as well too. Oh, he would be so you'd be much better. You should picked him. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Oh, I feel like those are two very different listenings though, because Jesse like, Oh God, he is such an entrepreneur, but he's so much energy and he's so fun and like, I feel like today like I'm super analytical. Mm-hmm. And so I am excited about like the conversations bring it into, especially in Landon cuz you have a lot degree, like people that have gone through the industry the way that you have. Like, I'm excited to hear your story. Yeah. Jesse would, Sorry again. Jesse would be much more entertained than me. but maybe next time that's something to build up, up for all kind of value and all always shapes and forms here. So go ahead. My question. You. Do Zimmer development Core Co. What is Zimmer? Development Company. Okay. I always see CEO when I answer the phone, so I don't actually know what the back end of it is. So what exactly is it? So, a very good question. So back in the late eighties you had Zimmer and Zimmer, I guess Lllp, which was all a law firm. Mm-hmm. in Wilmington. Probably, probably the biggest, I'd say, you know, biased was the best law firm in the late eighties or early nineties. And you know, you had Jeff and Herb Zimmer started that or, Cause my dad started and then when Jeff came to town after graduating law school, came to work there as well and. Jeff was always very popular with criminal. On the criminal side. He was a great criminal defendant. Always had all the flashy cars. Everybody wanted that lawyer. He always, you know, had the test. Rosa. I remember him driving me around when I was younger and just, just awesome vehicles. Always liked cars. My dad was more conservative and did a lot more, excuse me, of the civil civil size. They really worked well together and I guess over time they were, you know, given a lot of advice to clients and they thought, let's, let's maybe open this up and look to su do some more development ourselves. So late eighties, they started doing a lot of free standing drug stores, a lot of food lines. I believe at one point er Element was the Food Lion's largest, largest landlord. Oh, wow. Yeah. Expanded. Expanded from there and so, and have kind of grown more into multi-family and student housing today. Nice. So you're the reason why there's a Chinese. Restaurant next to all of my food lines, I'd never thought about that. That's accurate. True. Yeah. Yeah. So that'll be Arlene, the director of commercial leasing. Yes. You can thank her for that. Yes. I hope their know their, their ratings. Yes. Yeah, I'm sure. I always love that Someone posted that on TikTok a while ago and I'm like, That's not true. And then you notice it is. Yes, it is. I've only seen it not true once, and that's in North Chase because the Chinese restaurant went out of business and, but there's still a nail salon. I was about to say nail. So what got you interested in the real estate development side? So actually after coming back from law school, I was, I was actually gonna, I was writing a book with a professor and it actually was supposed to be published by Oxford University Press. I was gonna be on the cover. It's very exciting. But you know, it was a lot of lot about enemy combatants school on Tomo Bay and stuff, but it was kind of like, just not, we just took too long to write. It wasn't topical, so you never actually got published. But I was gonna be on the cover. I was very excited. Probably should have been, probably should have option to pay, get paid versus being on the cover, but Right. you learn valuable as in there. So it actually was employed by the university, Duke University and then got a call from mom. Dad had stage four cancer and one, he had like very, a 12% chance of living. So, you know, he was gonna be, he was gonna pass away probably within the next six months. So came back, kinda work and take his place. But fortunately he's still around. He's had mm-hmm. all kinds of cancers since then. He's kind of a modern miracle, but Wow. Still work with him and happy, happy that it ended out, ended up the way it, it did. That was the main reason I was gonna be coming back. Yeah. So Catherine. Mm-hmm. Have you guys had any like, business interactions on the legal side that you've had to work together or have you've been lucky enough to not have to So, fortunately, not, not quite yet, but we actually got asked that question the other day when we were at the, the penthouse, if we'd done any business together. And people do seem to overlap in Wilmington, but we probably will eventually. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nice. Just thought I'd ask. So no interactions with Jeff Zimmer either on the criminal side? Not yet. Who do you think I am? No, no, I'm I've been behaving myself for now. Okay, that's good. 75 far. Just kept her straight, right? Yeah. Seriously. She's had to restart it How many times now? Once, one time on day 12 for some french fries, So once you stop, you gotta reboot? Yes. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. We'll talk about this on another podcast. Mm-hmm. but I made it to like 54 or something like that and it's, I just didn't drink enough water. Mm. I was like, I hate my life so much. I know a lot of people that Because of the pic didn't the first time for you was a picture? Yeah. So when I was doing the live hard program, I fail because of the picture. Mm-hmm. What, what's the So 75 Hard, It's a program created by Andy Fors that started first form and it's like a mental wellness program. But Tyler can probably speak more to it than I can. Cause this is my first time and he's done it twice now. Mm-hmm. So you, you explained. Yeah. It's a, it's a mental toughness program where you have to read 10 pages of a book every day. A gallon of water work out twice a day. One has to be outside. Yeah. One of 'em has to be outside for 45 minutes for both. Yeah. Wow. And there is take a progress picture, Yeah. Progress picture that I always forget and stick to some type of diet. Yeah. And it's, it does help you physically and lose weight, feel better and all of that stuff. But it was meant to be a mental toughness program. And yeah, the picture part is like the easiest that you would think, but it's the easiest to overlook and that's why he put it in there basically saying that it's the groundwork and the easy things that you don't want to forget. Attention to detail is where you get lost in the big picture. Yeah, exactly. So it's really neat. I've done it twice. Well, well, I have to look into that. Well, it was interesting because like me and my wife did it together, so it's always great if you're gonna do it with an accountability partner. And I think that's same with pretty much any, any foray and a business and in life, if you have somebody who will hold you accountable. I think it's a great way to like keep you pushing forward. Community is a big deal and I feel like for me, just so I'm on day 28, but on day 12 was when I started over so mm-hmm. haven't had a drink in math there 40 days. worries. But I have realized one for myself that I am so quick to quit on myself. I will go above and beyond for other people, but when it comes to not procrastinating and you know, doing all those little check mark things every day, I will find every excuse in the book. But what you were saying about having accountability partner is, I feel like that was one thing, like when I got in the military that I was missing was like that comradery. And even now I'm just trying to find people left and random. Like, hey, wanna do something five hard hey hours. I'm struggle with me And so it's funny too that we bring this up because if you listen to Andy Frac Seller's podcast, he tells you not to do it with other people because of that. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. So is it's too easy to rely on someone else? Is that why or? Yeah, cuz if you're doing it with someone else, like you're holding each other accountable, he wants you to hold yourself accountable. Cause it's what you do like in the dark. Like it's the things that when other people aren't around, what are you doing? And he wants that to be the main focus of what the actual challenge is. I feel like it should be a requirement to read the book before you start. Yeah. Because when I, after, by the time I read the book, I understood it so much better. And like knowing like you have to stay on the same diet the whole time. Mm-hmm. you need to read the same book every 10 pages from cover to cover. Like the mundane consistency I feel like is where we tend to fail because in the world now we're used to like instant gratification, constant distractions. And when you have to do something that's boring, we don't know how to handle it anymore. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. When you can you read more than 10 pages? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's at least 10 pages minimum. Yes. And they want you to do something non-fiction self-help. Which is hard for me. I was just gonna say, how was that for you, Chris I read two books during the same time because I, I have to, like, if I'm reading something, I like to escape from the silliness of people who come in and ask me stupid questions all the time. And then also trying to like, grow yourself. So I had to read two books at the same time. I, I usually do, but I actually haven't been because I was afraid that because I'm being, I'm a force I'm choosing mm-hmm. to read 10 pages every day. I'm really bad at being told what to do, even though I was in the military that I'm just trying to read the one book, so I don't like fall off on anything. Yes. Right. Makes sense. so Landon kind of same type of path where you're focusing on multiple different things at the same time. I know you're involved in a lot of different. Things within the community too. So what else are you focusing on other than your, your full-time job? So guess the two things I'm focused on mostly would be so I was appointed to be on the North Carolina Department of Transportation board. Oh, wow. So do that. I'm a board member for division three, which is six counties around here, around north, around Hanford County. Okay. Okay. And then I'm also on the North Carolina Wildlife Resource Commission. So been on that for about seven years. And it's about, you know, keeping North Carolina's resource many things is keeping North Carolina's resources intact and growing the resource. That'd be the land that the wildlife Commission owns. The animals, the habitat keeping, everything growing and there for hunters and fishermen and all kinds of any, any citizen, any person who, who enjoys the game lands and, and, and resource pretty much. So being on the board for the d o t, that just kind of made me think of a current controversial question for Wilmington right now. Do you have any. Influence on the bridge that people keep talking about Well, well fortunate, so being, being on the, the deficient three chairman, and I'm on the Wilmington Planning Organization, the W npo. So when that came to Wilmington, when it, we basically got a a third party offer, A company came in and said, Hey, we'd like to build this bridge. So we brought that before the mpo and basically, you know, I was catching it from both ends, from both local parties, both sides, and, and it was just, you know, hey, let's see what other options are available. And I think a couple months later, maybe a year later, we voted again and to see what other options are available. So basically, d o t on their dime is spending all this money to show what options there are being a toll bridge, be it a, you know, a toll or a higher, higher level bridge. All kinds of different options. Then they're gonna bring 'em back and then let the Wilmington MPO vote on, When you think about it, there's really no bike or pedestrian path between Wilmington, Brunswick County, Pender. No. So, that would be added on, it might have a rail component. There's all kinds of options, but right now this, the no money from this area is being spent is state money being spent on that. So my thought is, you know, someone else is paying to give you options and more information. What's wrong with that? So, Right. Yeah. Well, and I've heard that the university wants to make it like the center point of Wilmington. I saw a PowerPoint at some event where they were showing like these grandiose bridges, they're center point of all these cities and apparently that's something they're trying to push to have here in Wilmington. Yeah, I haven't seen any images, but I know it would be, I mean, like I said, driving, I drove to Charlotte, I drove to last week, North Carolina, but drove through Charlotte, the one Monroe bypass. It's, I mean, much better looking than any other road I'm you've been on, cuz it's all private money. They spend it up, make it look nice. Yeah. And at the end of the day, after 30 years, 50 years, whenever the toll's over that would revert to the state. So, you know, when it's done. After being paid for itself, it, it gets paid given back to the state. So, And I'm sorry to keep asking questions you guys, Oh no, please. Are you a part of any of the conversations about pulling funding from people that buy electric cars to give back to the roads and things like that? So I'm chairman of the of kind of the technology committee. So that's something we bring up a lot of, and it's discussed a lot. So it's, it's actually, yeah, it's kinda a difficult problem because right now most of the state money comes from the gas tax. So how do you pay for the gas tax? You don't, you're paying for it. You don't really know it. So every time you buy fuel, you're paying for the gas tax. It's actually very efficient because it. Is a use tax. Everybody who buys gas pays for it, be it out of state, out of country person, you know, be it a so, you know, you can't really get away with buying fuel without paying the tax. If you start when we we're gonna have to change because, you know, gas prices or gas is going consumption's going down per person. Since our state's growing so much, we're able to kind of buffer that. But a lot of these states that are losing people or transitioning quicker to electric, you're gonna lose this funding source. Obviously it's better, you know, it's a, it's better for the state to not have all this gasp being burnt for environment and everything, but we're losing money. So it's an interesting way of, or, or losing money per person. Again, going up over time is the, is the gas tax income, but you're about to see that crest that turn where it's about to start decreasing. We're only going up because again the population of the state's going up. So you look, how are you gonna get this income for the state? Otherwise you can tax you know, Electric vehicles, you can say, I think Oregon's got a plan in there that's by mile. But how do you do that? Maybe at the end of the year when you bring your car in, excuse me. You bring your vehicle in for you know, to get inspection, inspection, inspection. You can do that. But then again, you're gonna be getting like a thousand dollars bill or $800 bill that you're not expecting. That's a lot for anybody to be paying. How can you break that up over time? And also, again, in the state, there's basically three places you can, you where the all the gas numbers go. Three, they call it the ra, the racks and about three racks in the state. So again, very efficient, very easy. You're gonna have to put in this whole infrastructure of people who are gonna have to, you know, And also what if not, if car gets inspected, a lot of people don't want to have cars inspected cuz they're not, you know, for whatever reason. And it's not legal, but you need to have it done. But a lot of you can't get away with not buying gas, not paying the gas tax. You can get away with not getting that permit. Oh, true. And it's like you're gonna have to have a huge infrastructure to. Pay for that. And it's we're looking to a lot of different options. A lot of states we're not, we're not gonna be probably the, you know, the one at the front changing the laws, but we're gonna be looking at other states and see what others do. And Oregon's always one that's kind of in the forefront of being very new and updated. So it'll be interesting. There is an electric vehicle fee that gets tacked onto your registration, by the way. Oh yeah. Don't you have a Tesla? I do have a Tesla. I forgot about that. Yeah, it's about a hun. It's around $150, like 1 35, something like that. So does that go to the state or is that a federal fee? That's state. That's state, yeah. Okay. and I found out, cuz I was upset about it, I was like, what the heck is this? And so I did the math to see what the gas tax would be and what I'm paying in the fee. And so the fee is 50% less than I would've paid in gas tax. So at least that makes me feel a little bit better. I never really thought about gas tax. So when everybody complains, because the new president and the gas prices go up and everything like that, is that going up because of the supply of the gas or is that going up individually for each state to be able to get more money? For the most? So it's both. Oh, so like the North Carolina gas tax has been set mm-hmm. and it kind of adjusts every so often, but it's not like, oh hey, when all the gas prices skyrocket, our gas tax didn't go up. Yeah, it's not, Oh, gotcha. Okay. That makes sense. So what's interesting, and nobody likes raising taxes, right? Cuz you get, or nobody, no politician likes to raise taxes. So what's funny is when it was, when the new administration came in, budgie went up and who's the, you know, national, federal at D O t chairman or. Director or secretary or whatever, I forget his title, but he came out and said, he's like, Everything's on the table to figure out how we're going to, you know, fix this except raising the gas tax. So yeah, federal, Federal don't wanna raise gas tax. No state wants to do it cuz Oh, you raise taxes, you know, we're gonna let you outta all of, So it's a really, I mean, it's, it's tough. It raising the gas tanks would fix a lot of problems, but nobody wants to, nobody wants to raise taxes. I feel like every industry at the beginning of this year, like, or any economist that you went to, like their predictions of what was gonna happen and what is happening night and day. Like mortgage lenders it January and February, they're like, Oh God, it's gonna hit 6% by the end of the year. This morning it was almost eight. Mm-hmm. And we're not even at the end of the year They're like, Oops. It's crazy. That's why I bought my house early. Yeah. But it, when you talk about gas tax, everyone always looks and like, Oh, gas is so much cheaper in South Carolina, but the roads are so much shitier. Oh yeah. Excuse my language. But like you, there's pros and cons to everything. Yes, it sucks that gas might be 15 to 20 cents more in North Carolina when you cross the border, but the roads are way better. Or you can look at Pennsylvania that has an extremely high gas tax and their roads are horrible. Oh my gosh. I will comment. The North Carolina, I think we have the second most miles of state roads in the country. Number one. Number one is Texas. I was about to say, so you don't have any county roads here. You have city and state, but it's no. Something, something new. It's funny bringing that up. A lot of companies when they're looking between North Carolina and South Carolina, well, taxes are lower and maybe South Carolina. Yeah. But how are you gonna get, how are you gonna disperse and have those logistics done? I think a lot of lot of companies are coming into Carolina saying, Wow, you know, and it's not like we are, our taxes are high. Anything. They get a lot of, a lot of tax rebates from the mm-hmm. you know, the governor and the legislature. When you start comparing and looking at logistics and roads, that's a big thing for lot companies coming to the state. Well, aesthetically, I feel like in our state too, that everything is so well maintained and like, I love Florida, I love visiting Florida, but there are sidewalks and there are roads. Everything is just like overgrown and not taken care of. And that's one thing that makes me appreciate coming back to Wilmington as it's actually beautiful. Mm-hmm. I was actually talking about the roads to my wife the other day too, cuz those are the amazing conversations that we have. But I was saying how it's, I feel like 74, 76, 17 and 40, the three main ways you come into Wilmington are always being repaved. Yeah. I feel like it's every couple of you, I know it's not quite that often, but it, it feels like every couple of years it's being repaved. Well, in 4 21 in what, 2018 or 19 for Florence got just like washed out. Oh yeah, sure. So they had to replace the whole thing Yeah. You know, being a. D o t nerd. I appreciate you all noticing that cuz we, you know, we like keeping the grass cut, like keeping the trash out of there and repaving the roads is one of the highest expenses we have. So yeah, it's glad it's at least being appreciated. Yeah. I have a, this is a really random question, but it's in the middle of election season so it makes sense. Mm. When they're when they're cutting the grass, what do they do with the election signs? I'd prefer you just run 'em over but that's a good question. I, I do not know. I guess you can't, I'm thinking about an I 40 being when they cut the grass there, but I don't know. I guess maybe they weed whack around it. I don't know. I'll, I'll get back to you on that one. I would assume. I'll let you weed whacking. Wait and then they probably charge more so our tax dollars are going. That's what I was thinking. Especially lately there's, I was just saying too, the other day, it feels like there's three times as many like yard signs out. Its that way every year. Yeah. Yes, I know. There's always a lot. I have something in my car right now. you don't discuss politics on non-political. Episodes we're not talking. I'm talking about the signs that everyone puts out. That drives me nuts. So cuz we, we mentioned it earlier, you're in a family business. How is that? Have you worked non in a family business or have you always worked for the family? Yes, I have worked in a, a family business and I'd get my start in the family business, start maybe when I was 12 or 13 and Yeah, my dad, you know, they put me in a store and Yep. I really, really wouldn't know too much what I was doing. But my grandfather was still around then and go with him downtown or to the, to the store, the mall. But no, you know, you learn and then, then I'd go intern in different departments. So you kinda get a good learning of how everything, everything works. You know, you don't know how everything works until you're really working there and do a deep dive. But as an a free intern, unpaid intern, I was, I'm probably sure I was still more work than I, you know, probably cost the company more than I would've, but even at being free. But no, I really enjoyed that. When my dad's favorite lines to me is, you know, there's pros and cons to a family business. And the pros, pros definitely on outweigh the cons, but there's a lot of things you come up across that you normally wouldn't in other business. You know, you got uh, you know, more feelings, more, more you know, different family egos and responsibilities mm-hmm. that you work around. But I think as long as you're aware of that, it's, it can be a good good place to, good place to work. Yeah, I feel like that's a lot of what our country was built on though, is families being able to come together and create large industries and things like that. And so it's beautiful that you guys are still able to do something like that. Yeah. Thank you. We, we we enjoy still work together and there's you know, everybody's still, well pre covid. We used to go to lunch today, lunch. Everybody used to go to lunch together and you know, have our major decisions made then, so, so, Yeah. Yeah. And over multiple industries too. So you have legal, real estate and retail. Right. So a little bit of everything going on. Yeah, I've, so I've worked at Reeds for like five years. I didn't realize how big the family was until I, I like technically took a step up within the store and so now I have to deal with a lot of like, Hey, so and so is coming in, or this friend of this person is coming. I was like, Wait, there's that many family members that I didn't even realize, like, cuz I'm used to. I've seen Ms. Arlene a bunch. I used to see your dad pre covid and I saw like Allen. Mm-hmm. and then now cuz things, I feel like the third generation is kind of like stepping forward a little bit more. I'm seeing more and more of like the younger people and I was like, I didn't realize there were that many kids. not in a bad way, but I just think it's kind of funny that you can really see like it's a true family. It's not like, Oh hey, it's a mom and pop shop. It's actually like the mom and pop have kind of grown forward and put out. That's something I really, really appreciated about moving to the South, especially from California. It's just not just how a family oriented everything is, but just how traditional a lot of people are and like, just the common courtesy and like how people introduce themselves and things like that. Like I feel like at least in North Carolina, from what I've seen people really hold on to like those traditions. Mm-hmm. A question for you sir. Cuz you're within the family business and we were talking about 75 hard and like pushing your mindset to kinda like grow as a person. What do you see as a growth opportunity for yourself, if not for the businesses? Gosh. Oh, that's a very good question. We were always you know, focused on growth at be res board meetings or meeting at development side. I don't know. I'll tell you, we um, we basically from, I'll, I'll give you maybe the development side and then that from there you can determine if that's a good answer. Probably not But um, so we, we uh, decided maybe, and this was again, the older generation came in. Dan and Jeff were saying, you know, maybe let's just seeing the reading the tea leaves, it was time to start slowing down. Let's not bring on many new deals. Let's deal with what we've got. So we've got, we have a lot in the pipeline. Probably was more much as we've ever had. And it was really, you know, that was some, you know, don't wanna call 'em old man, but old man wisdom where they came in, you know, where I would've been a little more gung ho, but you know, you could kind of see things. You know, six, six or eight months later, that was definitely a good call. We're still, you know, wrapping up stuff we've got and you know, restart the engine again soon. But we're happy right now with finishing up what we've got, getting everything built, getting leased up, and a lot of stuff still, still needs to be re rezoned and everything. A lot of these, a lot of these projects can take, you know, three, four years. One I worked on in, in Columbus, Ohio, we just got rezoned. Sure. It took four years to get rezoned. Geez. So then you gotta, then you gotta get it built and then you gotta hope it rents or leases. Mm-hmm. So it, a lot of these are long, long term horizons, but I'd say yeah, we're, I'll tell you what I, what I personally focus on like a lot of capital cities, like you know, a lot of places near universities where they have, you know federal or state employees and I guess would be state for the capitals in state for the universities. But a lot of, you know, Places that aren't gonna be losing jobs or mm-hmm. or moving, moving industries. So kinda like those areas. And then if you look at our portfolio, a lot of the areas that are like that are where I've where we've developed. I like a lot of brownfield sites too. So something I always, you know, environmental policy was something that kind of a, someone I studied a lot of in school and something that I'm, I take a lot of pride in that we take a lot of contaminated sites and clean 'em up through the state brownfield programs and then kind of make 'em fully remedi and where people can live or work or go shop. So, yeah. Oh, that's very interesting. This is exactly why I wanted to hear you on the podcast, Landon, is because the way that you answered that question, because if you would've asked me the same question, I wouldn't have had such like specific information to give you. And I read something the other day that was, if you give a rich person and a poor person like a hundred thousand dollars mm-hmm. one of them comes back with bmw, the other one comes back with an asset to buy a bmw. And I'm realizing, like I'm still at the phase of I'm gonna go buy a bmw and he just described how to like, get all the payments to be able to afford BMW I mean it's, Go ahead. As I said, it reminds, we have a, what is it? Y'all seen this movie? Sorry, I'm, I can, I can riff right? I can go Yeah, absolutely. the guy's name's Brian, not balding or Brian some movie about a guy who was an Arkansas walk on and he went, he was actually made a fourth round, Peggy, he probably should have been the first round, but he was basically be paint manning's guard for like 10, 15 years. This guy was gonna be a study, he was an All-American. He got a wreck and, and died right before, right after the draft, but before he was gonna be in the nfl. And they have a movie about him. It's kinda has a religious slant, but it's a very good movie. I can't, can't remember the name, but again, it's the guard for ar if you do, you know, search guard for Arkansas, Walk on All American. But he in the movie, it's a cool part to go, you know, he's like, he's, you know, he had to work really hard for everything he's gotten and he's talking about all these athletes who are like, you know, naturally gifted and they don't work as hard. I think his brother or somebody in the movie, he. My, he says, you know, say you earned $10,000 and someone else was given $10,000. It's like you both end up with $10,000, but who, who valued more And obviously the person who worked worked for it. So it's kind of a good remind me of that, but yeah. Well it's the difference between somebody that wins the lottery and then they go blow it and they end up in debt versus somebody that like worked really hard and they, like a lot of rich people prefer to save supposedly because they don't wanna let go of any of that money cuz they work so hard to earn it. I love how you're both googling it now, I know the race. It was interesting cuz it made me think of, oh yeah, so it was this guy Brandon Bosworth, Brandon Burlsworth, Burlsworth. I'm horrible at pronouncing names sometimes how same and remembering names. But we were talking about this on like our r episode we had. I was like, Hey, if someone came up to you and said, hey, I can give you a thousand dollars or I can go and give somebody over there 10,000. And majority of us were like, Hey, I will take the thousand dollars. Cause if I give somebody 10, I don't know what they're gonna spend it on. Do you think the majority would take the thousand Yes. Of the, Of the people we had the year? Yes. The four here, three picked, Let me take the thousand. Well, hold on. That's not true. Technically we said 10,000 and a hundred thousand is first question. It was 10,000 and a hundred thousand was the first question. The first question. I said I would take the 10 the next time with a thousand and or give away 10,000. I said I would give away 10,000, not take a thousand. I was gonna say, there's no way Tyler would've done that. Yeah, he still, he was like, I'll take the 10 over a hundred. But it's just interesting to see like my mindset as Sure I really love that money, but I know that there's other people who could put it to better use. But like you were saying, like the quote unquote, like the older generation mindset I've seen where businesses are like, Oh, let's grow, let's grow, let's grow, let's grow. And it's because they're like, all they see is the now and the people who, like, we need to take advice from the people who have been around and yes, they, they can't see the future, but they've seen the trends and they know typically well enough to guide you in the, in the a right way, for the most part. So you're not like, Oh, let me just spend all my money. They want you if they're a good person or like a good advisor. A mentor. Yeah. So to piggyback off of that too, one of the things that we talk about in my industry is you need to have. Kinda long term perspective and someone that's lived through that. Because if you look at people mostly our age, for the past 14 years, we've been in a bull market. We don't know what it's like for there to be a, a pullback at all or even just a stagnation and what's happening in the economy. So if you look at kind of what we've seen during our adult lives, we've just seen people making money, making money, making money since 2009, and everyone else that has that knowledge and wisdom to look back on over the past 40 and 50 years, they're like, Yeah, we've seen this before. It doesn't continue going up. And so, and I'm sure very similar with your family as well too, along with the other people with that wisdom is while it was going up, Putting a little bit more into their piggy banks because they knew this was gonna happen. Everybody in your industry for the last three years have just been like Stack Cash? Stack Cash Stack. Yes. That's exactly what we've been doing. But we when we went to the Power breakfast last month, I think mm-hmm. One of the professors from the university, that's what they're talking about is how the students right now, their expectations of what an entry level job will pay is so astronomical and unrealistic of just trying to shift that to make them understand that like, you have to earn that. Yes. And they Instagram, you see Elon Musk and all the different stuff, and they just think that, you know, they're gonna go post, post pictures on a beach somewhere and be millionaires. Yep. Not some people. It works for some people, but Yeah. Not the majority, obviously. Right? Not, not, not so much. Chris, going back to what you were saying though on the money, like if we were to quantify that in a simpler scale, I feel like if you were to put on a jacket this winter that you haven't worn since last year and you found 20. Me personally, if I found that 20 bucks, it's like, Oh, free money. I'm gonna go buy myself something. Versus if I only had $20 left in my bank account, you better believe it's like the toothpaste that you literally got all the very last drops out of. So if someone were to come to me and whether they were offering like $10,000 or a hundred thousand dollars, I feel like in both situations I would actually get a larger return by giving it to somebody else. Because if it came to me and it wasn't mine, I would just blow it. And I know I would, but I feel like the impact it might not possibly make for someone else, I would hope and believe that that would come around and affect me better in the long run. So you figure out the name of that movie, Greater, Greater It's worth the watch if you're, you know, bored. Again, it's just interesting. I get bored all the time, so I put on Walking Tall this morning. What's like, Oh, it's horrible. It's a remake. Well that's, that's so. It's the remake with the Rock. So there was original one like years ago. But this was like pre tattoo rock. I was gonna say, there's something horrible with the Rock. I thought he was awesome. They removed a scene where he like bashed in someone's taillight. Yeah because they were like, they don't want him to be a a bad cop. They wanna be a good yes. Was that the unedited version you saw? Yes. So, cause I've seen the original one. You saw the tele get smashed a while ago. So they, cuz they're always editing the past cuz with everything being digital, they can take shorts and cut pieces out. Let's be real, the rock is adjusting his outward interesting persona. His image because like in the movie this is not a spoiler cuz if you haven't seen this movie that came out like 10 plus years ago, Tough break but yeah, like I said, this was Johnny Knoxville was his side character in this. So like, it was so ridiculous. But he comes, wait 10 years ago. Is that like jackass era? It was like 2012. It was, oh my God. Yeah, it was old. I think it was more than 10. But he shows up, moves back home, and I guess it's like the northwest and they're putting up casino and people are running drugs, doing bad stuff. And he's like, The sheriff isn't doing anything. So he runs for sheriff, tries to like clean the town up and he tries to pull this guy over and the dude's like, Huh, what you gonna do to me? Isn't this Blazing Saddles? I feel like I've seen this movie. welcome to Whiskey UV reviews. But he literally was like, What are you gonna do to me? And he is like, Mm, well you, okay, I got you. And he walks to his truck, comes back, breaks his taillight. It was like, your taillight's broken. You need to get that fixed But because it's revising history now, the taillight isn't in all the versions that you can find online because it makes him look like the bad guy. And he's not trying to be a bad guy. In the real world. He's the wants to pursue an outward image, be the kid shows. Why are we doing that in society? I hate that. Welcome to China Speaking of China, have you seen those the 300 square feet apartments? Yes. That is so crazy. Are you surprised? I don't know. It's like living in a kennel as a person. Yeah. That's crazy. Well, that's New York City. That's true. We saw a picture this thing the other day, and this girl is living in a closet. I mean, like literally she, her apartment, figuratively, figuratively, her apartment is about the size of our studio, and she has a bunk bed that she has to crawl onto because she has to fit her kitchen right in a bathroom on one side and then has to crawl up to the bed to sleep at night and. What the pictures I saw, like the bed and like the stove and the twi, everything was touching. Yes. I can offer a little insight on this. So these are, you know, a trend called micro units or micro apartments? Yes. I don't know about these like closet ones, but we're doing, we're looking at these in some cities where there may three to 400 foot apartments. Mm-hmm. So you get buy, you get a full bathroom you know, tub or walk and shower. You get a kitchen made kitchen at area. So instead of getting mm-hmm. Instead of, cuz you think back when you were in college or whatever, did you ever use your oven? I mean, no, I didn't. So like you can have a little pizza cook or whatever, but it's like basically bigger than a, a hotel room. A lot of these, you know, efficient ones and you get a balcony and then what you do is the end, the end of the hallways, you've got these like huge kitchen areas where people can go hang out, watch tv, or on the other end you get you know, like study rooms or areas. So I've seen it in Tampa where. These big time high rises are going in, they're doing it. They're saying these, they'd rather spend money for the location, but they spend their money on the, you get basically it's the same rent as a, you know, a much bigger apartment, but you get a lot more amenities. So, I don't know, I dunno if that's the way the future or not. It might be a trend, but it might, might be a good transition for college gets though. Yeah. That they, they're used to living like that anyway, so why not just take a half step out and get the job and get military barracks? Hammer to that too. Yeah, Actually that sounds way cleaner. right? The barracks? No, the Tampa, like the micro No, I, I joke cuz on my deployment we stayed in like these Nice, they were nicer barracks and then run down Air Force barracks basically. Yes. But we got, But if you if you have, if you stayed at Camp June and drank the water, I'd be happy to represent you for uh, No. I don't think I ever drank the water at camp. I've been there a few times, just never drank the water. But like overseas, they had built some barracks and I think there were six rooms. And because I was a lone man on the totem pole, I had to share it with another dude. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, I'm sleeping on a bunk bed being six foot three, having to climb up on this bunk and scoot around. And they moved us to a new room and they were like, well the higher ups, they didn't like you guys being that close to the motor pool and they wanted to be there. I'm like, they never leave the base. But we got shifted and so we all got our own little rooms and one of my guys used to be a corrections officer and he was like, This room is a size of a prison cell, if not smaller. And I was like, You're not wrong. Cuz I could take my twin bed and like rotate it and it hit wall to wall on one side and I had enough room for which I'm gonna call it a chest, I would say dresser, where we go with this. I had a chest at the other and I'm like, this is all the space I have. But I was like, man, this is some tight, But I got used to it. Try being on a ship. Literally this table right here is the size of your bed. You got about this much room and I'm using my fingers and showing like six inches underneath to be able to put your stuff and especially on like certain cutters or stacked three high. So literally the height of this, you can't even sit up in bed. You just have to like you the bottom or on the top right, cuz they throw up, goes down or But I mean, a lot of men can't even turn on their side to sleep because it's too, it's too short. That's if you work on a cruise ship, it's exactly the same way. Oh, that's crazy. I would never join the Navy because of that. I thought about it, I was like, first off, a can't win. Just kidding. I can swim for those who, I just don't want to swim like that. And two, I, no, I'm not trying to be a starting To flip it around real quick too, cuz we were talking about all of the things that you do and have accomplished and everything, and one of the questions that I had for you, and something that Katherine and I have talked about and just a bunch of other people on the podcast is, with everything you've accomplished, do you take time to celebrate those wins? Or if that's hard, why is that difficult for you? No, I'm the worst. I'm no, I focus on much, I focus much more on the losses and failures. Which there are plenty of to look at and hopefully learn from those. And you gotta enjoy the wins. I, I try to, and something I've worked on to improve. But I guess one way, one way I look at it is so, you know, this four year process going through Columbus, Ohio, getting this rezone, had a lot of setbacks, had a lot of, you know, wins losses. The way I look at it, and the way to celebrate the wins, which you have to do is I, I don't know. I'm a, I like football, I like sports. I look at it different ways. So we'd go up there and we'd have a meeting where, you know, things didn't go great, but we accomplished a little bit. I'd like, eh, we, you know, that's like a, we got a three yard run. So looking at a football, okay, you know, something really good having got touch you a first down, something like really, really good happen to get a touchdown or you something bad, you know, we got sacked or threw an interception, right? But you know, you look at it long. I guess the point of it is that it's not over to the long, to the game ends. So you've got a long horizon and just keep looking at it as, as long as you're advancing the ball, as long as you're, you know, moving, moving the ball forward, not backwards. There's always hope as long as you look over the horizon. So always glass is half full optimist. But yeah, I don't, unfortunately I need to be better about focusing on more, more wins. Thanks for bringing up. I'm gonna go Think about that more actually. Yeah, definitely. That was a question or a conversation you and I were having landed and that's why I actually really wanted you to meet Tyler, because I swear like whenever I see something motivational, it comes from Tyler and he is always pushing and like, just in the short amount of time I've known you, you have grown so much, but oh my gosh. Are you hard on yourself Yeah, I get told that. Yes, he is definitely. Yeah, I'm, I'm exactly the same way too. So with something goes wrong, I'm, I'm analyzing it to the nth degree and I've get something right. I'm like, Yeah, well of course it did. So just keep on going. And was like, I plan for it to go well. So it just wasn't a when in my mind and kind of what you've said and what I've been talking to other people too, like, need to take that time and appreciate it. Yeah. So you said that you were trying to do better with that too. What are a few steps that you've taken to try to take those wins a little bit more? You know, maybe so a lot of work it is with teams, different people just, just, you know, because I feel like people I work with, you know, I'm like, Hey, let's get, get a beer. And they're like you know, do they really wanna go get a drink with me? Or they, like, they got families they don't want, you know, they don't wanna stay at work another hour. It's like, so I guess, I don't know, try to celebrate more wins, have more, not mon, not monetarily, right, But have, you know, more of a celebration, more of a group success. You know, let's, let's all go to lunch or something and I'll pick up a tab or let's, let's do something where, you know, we all get to kind of celebrate it. And again, I'll, the reason I'm saying not monetarily is because I dunno. When I was in business school, took a class from a DNA reality was awesome. He looked this guy up, he's really good. A r i l y. And a lot, a lot of what he talks about is like predictable irrationality or people's, people's motivations. It's like, If someone does, it's like, it's like kind of like a rat ma or something. You give that rat a dollar, it's like, Oh, that's the prize, that's what I should do. And it's like, you don't wanna, you wanna focus things on money, You wanna focus things more on like, you know, camaraderie and success. And it just leads to better teamwork and better successes over time. But that's a way I'm trying to look at it and celebrate more wins just by everybody enjoying the moment. And maybe someone I've done in the past is get these tombstones when we've done a project and I get yelled at it because I guess the family doesn't really like them, but I'm sure everybody, everybody in the office, everybody was part of it. Everybody gets a tombstone, Hey, we all helped to build this and sent it to a lot of offenders and folks we've worked with. And I don't know, I look at 'em with a sense of pride and, I don't know, little tokens like that or something with a new office. We Couple guys in the office, we joke, you know, we may not be the smartest, but we sure are tenacious. So yeah, we're like a honey badger. So I, I, hopefully none of my family will listen to this podcast, but we're gonna get a big honey badger that we're gonna put in the office that we're building, and I don't, it'll be like a little mascot for us or something like that. That's awesome. Yeah. And naturally, Landon you off are similar to Tyler, where you're both the type of people where you are externally focused and you always wanna make sure that everybody around you is taken care of. And so he asked you a question about what you do for you, and you automatically started talking about how you take care of your team. So I'm gonna throw that back at you again. What do you do for you, I know I need to, I need to, need to tell me what I need to, I, I'm the same. I was hoping you'd have advice because I'm so bad at that for myself. What about you, Tyler? Do you have any things that you've started to do to try and have like more gratitude and pay attention to the wins? So, I, I kind of do, but it always goes back into business as well. Yep. See So like if I do something well at work, I'm like, Oh, you know what? I will Have a little celebration, I'll go out and I'll try different whiskey so I can come back to the studio and have something to talk about here. So it's just always kind of circular for me. But it's, it's kind of cliche, but it's one of those things where it's like, if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. Yeah. Like I truly enjoy the things that I am putting my time and effort into that when I do celebrate, it's within that business because I enjoy what I'm doing with it. And that might be detrimental as well. No, not at all. That Andrew Huberman podcast that I sent you mm-hmm. That was one of the things in neuroplasticity that I was talking about, that in order to actually find true enjoyment for long periods of time to actually keep yourself pushing through the lulls is to find pleasure in the struggle. So that's actually a good thing. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I just go by comics. At least you have something. No. Marvel. Marvel DC guy. Technically Well, it's funny because I've, I figured someone would ask me that and I'm like, Technically I like Marvel. Cause I like Dr. Strange. But in reality I like the Runaways and Nico Manor cuz she's just hilarious. But I, I read a bunch of, like, off brand stuff. Mm-hmm. I went to high school and actually grew up with the guys who own Memory Lane comics now. Oh, cool. And so I try and, like, if I'm gonna buy any sort of comic, I want to support local mm-hmm. So of course I go to Barnes and Noble or replace the order, but I, I know, and I've pushed myself to the point where, where instant gratification isn't always the answer. So I'm like, Hey, let me order this. If you guys don't have it, I'm going to ask you support you guys. I'm like, Hey, I need the next eight of this book. I'm placing the order now, so I'm gonna come back. And to me it gives me more of that like, Hey, if it takes two weeks or it takes a month, it gives me something to look forward to. So when I hit that next goal, I'm like, Hey, this is my celebration. I like that. And jumping back to Dan ae, which again, if you believe, I don't think he's the good, he's the gospel, the Bible, he's the best. But his, his theory, they did a lot of studies. They say when you want, you know, you know, go do experiences, but if you want to, if you have a you know, something of substance or something you want, like a couch or comic, that the joy of like wanting it and desiring it is almost, or is actually better than when you get it in there. So actually what you're doing by delaying the gratification, you're actually enjoying it more according to his his studies. So that's pretty good. You didn't even need to read his book, Yeah, it's so, like, we interview so many people and I learn so many things from them, but I also have, my brain works a different way than most people apparently. And so they're like, Oh, have you listened to this? And I'm like, No. But I've been doing that for the past, like 10 years and didn't realize I was supposed to Okay. So outta curiosity, a. For the two of you, and your answers will probably be different. Like, big Dreams Cole, like famous person that you wanna have on this podcast. Oh, go ahead. That's a good question because I, I think about that from time to time too. And it always kind of changes depending on like who I'm kind of thinking of. Yeah. So like whiskey wise or like service wise, like Gordon Ramsey would be really cool to have on here. Oh yeah. Yes. So like, I think that would be a lot of fun. And like business wise, just, I like how Elon Musk talks. Mm. So I like to have his perspective and to have that on here too. So you're quote, my question is, what's your definition of Famous? I was just using like famous as in anybody basically that stands out significantly to you that would, you would feel fulfilled if like, Hey, we made it with this podcast cause we interviewed this person. So. One, my wife will probably slap me. But I, I would love to have Katherine Hah on here. She is a comedian and I think she's freaking hilarious. If you've ever watched Stepbrothers. She is the wife of like the shorter brother, like singing in the car and the brother's like, Oh, you're hitting the wrong note or whatever. That's his wife in that movie. I, her, I remember heard that is name. Just cause she filmed here in Wilmington for, I'm mad because she filmed something while I was on deployment. Oh. And my friend texted me and she's like, Hey. Or like, she sent me a message. Don't you like that one redheaded lady? Like, cuz she worked at like a CVS up here and everyone on, somehow if you, cuz there's not really a pharmacy in downtown anymore. They always go to the CVS on Market Street. Mm-hmm. And that's where she works. So she's like, Yeah, that girl came in. And I was like, I hate you so much. Oh, I'm like, I was an extra on a bunch of random things and never got to meet cool people. But as a non like, super famous per person, I'd like Max tuning or Christian Guzman because they're both heavy entrepreneurs in different spaces. Like Christian is very athletic focused, but he has a huge clothing empire that he's building. But he's also investing in real estate and doing a bunch of like other little things. And Max is just a goofball and I feel like he'd be kind of fun to have on here. I feel like if we put it out into the ether now, it'll actually come around in happen. So yes, Elon Musk, we'll tag off people. I have a friend who's was her brother's good friend, so I'm definitely gonna text him. Oh, nice. Oh, nice. Who? Katherine Ho's brothers, I guess, grew up with her in mid South Carolina. How crazy would that be? Oh, that would be, Well, we, Chris was like, What I was like, Oh, that'd be so fun. Yeah, it's always funny. I told my wife that and she's like, Your choice of like the prettiest women is the weirdest thing I've ever chosen. I was like, I don't know. I just think she's kind of funny. I think she's pretty. Which is just me in a nutshell. I think she's very pretty as well and very funny. Yes. Thank you Catherine Hahn, I have to go this. Yes. She's also in one of my like, top 10 favorite movies called Hat Now. Which you guys should all watch because it's like a comedy, but it's like a romcom. It has Reese Witherspoon and Paul Rudd. That Fred Nicholson is so funny. Like her humor is so awkward. Like I blush she makes me blush. yes. Yeah, I had to google who it was, but like, I, like, I love, How do you know? Because it's a great movie of like, reality of like, it, I watched it the other day and it, like, it always sparks me to think cuz Reese. Hit a spot in her career and she had to pivot to something different. And like Paul Rudd plays like the good guy. He's like, I don't want to hear any bad news. I'm just thinking positive all the time. Even though shit kept like piling up and piling up and to the point where he is finally like, you know what? I'm just gonna live my best life while I can. And to me that was like a, when I watched that movie was a ch turning point to make me start thinking a little bit better of like positive things. Like even when shit's going bad, there's always something positive that you can get out of it. You can't always be in the good spot in life. But you also can't always trust your family. That's a lot of random information. Bringing that up though, I actually was gonna ask you Landon, is you said that you always try and see that the glass is half full. Is that something that you do in business when you find yourself getting frustrated to try and like focus on the positive stuff more? That's just more of Just, you know, things, Some things are imprinted on you when you're young. That's kinda my thing. You know, just always not, you know, not, not giving up, never quitting. And just, you know, pursuing, if there's somebody you really wanna pursue, just keep, keep, keep going after it. So, no, that's not something, unfortunately, in business, we probably, probably be legal, the legal side, you always see more negatives than you do positives. So you wanna see, you know, how could this go wrong? And you see a million ways to go wrong and hopefully navigate those negatives. But but yeah, I also wanna say, How do you know is also a very good movie, Sorry, sorry, sorry. We're in a movie review today. No, I'd say I figured we sat like this would be good, right? Yeah. We have more, more, more just seeing, hey, what could go wrong here? And you know, just trying to find that. But that's the way I live. My life's a little more optimistic. It's actually funny we bring that up too though, cuz all the years that I did work at Reeds, one of the other coworkers that we had, every time something would possibly, could possibly go wrong, my famous quote was like, it'll be fine. Mm-hmm. And so she would always look at me cuz something was starting to kind of go down the wrong tracks. And then she goes, already know, it'll be fine. You're gonna say it. Like, and she was like getting frustrated with me and I was like, You've known me for how many years now. When was, when was it not fine at the end of it? Oh. And she was like, That may be true, but it doesn't make me feel any better now. And I was like, I think a lot of it comes from what I'm thinking too, and you're probably the same way. You've already analyzed the per, like the percent of what are these things that are gonna go wrong and you're already kind of having your mind, alright, this is the worst case scenario. Odds are that probably won't happen, but I have a contingency plan if it does. So that's what I was gonna say is even though you are looking at all the things that may go wrong, I feel like you're doing that to be able to protect yourself to have a positive outcome. So in turn, you're actually focusing on the positive. Yeah, I'd be say like, I don't have this anymore. I think my subscription ran out, but I had a really good decision tree model where, you know, you put like percent, okay, what's, what's, you know, what's catastrophic failure, you know, losing this much or, or project, project fails, What are the odds of that? And, you know, people are notoriously horrible at predicting percentages of success. So it's, it's it was interesting to look at that, but it's kinda like, I guess you gotta make your own decision tree and model and You know, see if it, if it fails, yes. I'll overly focus on why it did and mm-hmm. what could have gone, did, Did you, what'd you miss? Did you miss anything? Or did you see it coming and mm-hmm. you just thought it was, you know, a lower percentage, but you know, you never know a lot of this, a lot of the, you know, rezoning, how are the people gonna vote? How is an election? And election makes a difference. There's one in Raleigh where we were having a lot of trouble, and then the local local citizens basically voted in a very conservative city council that is now very pro-growth, pro activity. So now you see all these 40 story buildings in Raleigh being approved, which, I mean, in my opinion, it's a big city. It's, it's, it's growing. That's a good thing. But some people would say, Hey, you know, it's, it's not necessarily a good thing. It's to be too much traffic and some other negatives, but it's you know, in a business where you rely on other people's opinions and you, you can't always, you never know what they're gonna be thinking or what their motivations are a lot of times that are hidden. Does Raleigh have the capacity for buildings like that? Oh yeah. Okay. Wilmington I don't think could maintain a bunch of 40 story tall buildings. We can't even handle the traffic we have now but, But we're working on that. So it all sudden you have the guy that you need in front of you about that one? Well it's funny cause I have so many, like I've lived here my whole life and everyone's like, Oh the traffic is so horrible. And I'm like, first off, traffic's only bad because all y'all mo moved here it's your fault. Yes. But it's like, you gotta think what, what's the reason why all these things happen? And that's where my perspective comes from is like you bring everyone here who has a different driving style from different parts of the country. Mm-hmm. And so then it's going to affect the people who've lived here their life. And they're like, Hey, we drive five over 10 over the speed limit and we use our turn signals. And then you have the people who are from like other spots and they're like, I don't use the turn signal. I'm gonna emerge and get in this little small gap, which then causes the person who's driving the proper. Like Southern proper way. Okay. I was gonna say, you better clarify. Cause you guys stopped to merge on the freeway and I don't know what that's about. Yeah, no, but I'm saying like there's, there's ways to do everything, so it affects everybody. But the Wilmington traffic is always going to take longer because Wilmington, I don't think was meant to be a massive city. And because the growth has been exponential and it takes years to build up the infrastructure, like the bypasses, like I have a friend who works for, he's actually working on that project, like the ml. Mm-hmm. Military cutoff, extension, kind of bypass. Mm-hmm. like it takes so many years to get through the paperwork and to do all the research for it, and all we see is it's taken 10 years. I'm like, yeah, because on the front end they took another five to 10 years to figure out exactly how they do. Same goes with diamonds. Yeah. That actually just made me think of another question for you, Landon, in regards to d o t. After Covid, I know that inflation and things like changed a lot of the projections that people had. Did some of the programs and things that you guys already had in place in the D O T have to get reformat reformatted because of that? Good question. Yes is the short answer, but basically, so you had a lot of we were in flux. We basically due to you had the MAP act, basically we were in financial issues. The d o t was, so legislature came in, bailed us out, and which was, you know, the legislature, the governor all agreed to do that. So we got a lot of projects moved forward. But then a lot of these projects cost a lot more money. Mm-hmm. so things get, keep getting pushed back. Projects that here in Wilmington, probably were supposed to be done now, are now pushed back several years, five, 10 years because costs are going up. But also, so then you have the what the federal. The federal stimulus that basically moved a lot of those projects forward. So I would say I think, I think when the Obama stimulus package was gonna be 800 million or 600 million, that when things were so much cheaper, then that, you know, made a big, huge difference. Now, it's basically my opinion, it moved a couple, you know, what was it? A trillion, 2 trillion. I, I don't know, I, I, I don't know the number, but it moved projects forward. But it's not like bringing in any projects that weren't gonna happen anyway. It's not bringing in a bridge that was never gonna be on that program. So the way the program's run in north, it's called the Step S T I P step program And projects are analytically looked at by data and analyzed and given numbers. And that's how they, that's how they do that. But yeah, those, those like that intersection there, they're gonna first build for, you know, little side roads around it, see how that works. Then you're gonna build an overpass a couple years later. But I mean, yeah, it's gonna take stuff in infrastructure and D o t transportation takes, takes decades, unfortunately. It's like trains. We can't go due to property rights. China can go, Hey, you guys are moving, we're getting you outta here. Environmental, who cares? Let's just build this train. Boom, we're gonna do this. And they get it done quickly and cheaply. And the US property rights are a big deal. You gotta, you can't take someone's property, you can't move them. Environmental issues are a big deal. You don't want to knock out any you know, animals or, or um, plants that are, you know, going to extinct or that are, have value. And so it takes a lot longer in the us. Hmm. Well I know that the housing market was highly affected over the summer time because of all of the foreign limber companies that claim force mature. I wasn't sure if supply was also affected for D O t. I didn't even think about that. So, so department transportation, the majority of your work would be based on oil prices. So that's thing about asphalt, concrete, steel and all those Yes. Skyrocketed. And yeah. So things have gone up, I mean, significantly, so That's crazy. Think as much as you used to. Hm. There's a good analyst not allowed to name drop unfortunately, but who deals a lot with commodities. And he was saying too, because of oil prices and gas prices, he was like, You don't realize all the things that you need oil and gas for first of all. Oh yeah. And second of all, on top of that too, every other commodity needs oil and gas at the very bare minimum to transport it from one place to another. Yep. And usually multiple other avenues that kind of oil plays into. So that's why if you see oil go up, every other commodity's gonna go up with it, just cuz it has to. I hadn't thought about that, cuz to me, if you say oil and gas, that just think of a car. But then you have to think of farm equipment, You gotta think of chainsaws. You had to think of like the boats that are coming over. That's crazy. And that's the stuff. That you're even thinking about just provide emissions. There's a lot of things that take oil for it to be made. Yes. So yeah, like no much petroleum is inside of these, like a water bottle. It's Yeah, pretty much anything you touch has petroleum in it. Wow. So unfortunately we've held you a lot longer than expected. Pontificated too long, so, No, it's okay. So we do always have one last question and we ask Catherine before too, so now it's your turn. So if you were to tell your younger self one thing, what would it be? She should have given you a heads up. That be, that's my bad, easier have fun. I dunno. It's actually a really good one. It's a quick, you only get one trip around, so make the most. Yeah. I love it. Like it. Yeah, the short, simple ones. Are they really easy ones for us to clap and put on social media? So I appreciate that. Well for being a R this was pretty good. We cut a lot of time with like, no questions, no prep Thank you all for having me. This was, this was a lot. This, this was a lot of fun. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much for coming on and it saved Chris and I too, cuz we were talking just a few days ago. We were like, Hey, we both have off Monday mundane and we didn't schedule anyone and Catherine was like, Hey you want someone to come on the podcast? I was like, Yeah, Monday It worked. So that was great. So yeah. Thank you guys for listening. If you want to follow us on social media, you should already know Whiskey Dot and Wisdom on Instagram. Mm-hmm. And do you want them to follow you on anything? No, no. I'll, I'll just follow you all. Okay. you can't follow me, but I'll follow you. Yes. And you guys should know, you should keep tabs on Katherine cuz she is always making moves. Ta might not be big, but Little bit of both. Yes. So yeah. Thank you guys for listening. Hanging out. We did try this Texas straight bourbon. It got better as I added more water to it, so I will give it that. And no, we don't add water to water down. You add water to express Open the flavors. The flavors a little bit more. So that's, I saw a video, so there's different ways to drink it. You can drink it straight, you can do it. Little bit of water. You can put ice cube to chill it down. There's multiple ways. Ginger ale, there's Oh my God. The only wrong way to drink ka whiskey is to just pour it out. Yes. Unless you're pouring one out for your homies So yeah, leave a review for us on all the social medias if you can or subscribe. We are updating, adding new stuff to the ecosystem all the time, so keep an eye out. Oh, and we have some big news coming up, so make sure you listen to our next episode because it will benefit everyone. Yes. All right. Great teaser. Yeah. Thank you. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.